S9 EP6: Movie magic with Mark Nazal & Kino Scialabba

[00:00:00] What's up, Primos, Primas, and Primas? Welcome to My Primos, My Primos, My Primos Podcast. Welcome to the My Primos Podcast. My name is Freddy. My name is Kevin Garcia. My name is Elia Maria Matiz. My name is John Abina. This is Chikumi. Whenever I can make it. My Primos Podcast discusses all things fandom and pop culture. From comic books, movies, to whatever obsession we have this week. But with a Latine, Latine, Latine perspective. Remember, we're all Primos. We're all Primas. Primas. Primos. No matter what the world is.

[00:00:30] We're part of the world we're from. Primos, Primas y Primas. And welcome to another episode of My Primos Podcast. It's good to be back. Listen. It's good to be here. It's good to be here. Another one. Another one. You know, actually, it's good to hear you. I was with a guest primo, I guess, Mickey. He was really helpful last episode. So that was really cool. Yeah. We have a host here. Thank you very much. We do. I bringing us into the show.

[00:01:08] Elia Maria Matiz Yo, what's up? My name is Elia Maria Matiz I'm back. I'm here. Spice Illustrations But I can't host alone. I've got special co-host Kevin Garcia. Say hi, Kevin. Hi, Kevin. There we go. I changed it up a little. Don't tell Freddy. He's going to find out. Well, I jumped in. So that's what happens. Then again, tell Freddy I jumped in. He'll believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:30] Of course, Freddy, our fearless leader, will probably be back either next episode or the one after because he is the one that keeps us all together. He is the glue in our sandwich. Wait, that's not right. Glue in our sandwich? You don't put glue in your sandwich? I mean, you could. You could. Don't. Don't. But welcome back, y'all. We have a really fun episode planned for y'all. Some kind of cool science, some cool engineering, some cool visuals. Some cool movie stuff.

[00:01:55] Magic. Yes. The stuff that you're like, whoa. That's what we've got today. The stuff that I would actually, before there was YouTube and stuff, and I was like, you know, back in the days before the internet, I would go out and seek out all of the movie magic specials that would come out. Yes. Yes. And I would be like, I need to see these things. They don't make them as often anymore. And I live for that. I love seeing how. I love seeing the how. But how. We're going to find out somehow today, maybe. What do you think, Kevin? I think we are. But we need to talk to people that know the biz.

[00:02:25] Who could we talk to? And on that note, we have some guests. Hey! Joining us for the first time on My Primo's Podcast are some people that were cohorts of mine, I guess, at the Comicpalooza University over in Houston during Comicpalooza, you know, the Comic Con there. Yeah.

[00:02:43] Comicpalooza University was kind of like a mixture of like professionals, academics, and comic pros getting together to talk about what goes in behind the scenes for pop culture, and especially when it comes to inclusion and making sure everybody gets represented. Joining us, Mark Nazzal. Say hello, Mark. Hey, guys. How's it going? Mark, should I make an introduction? How's it going? Well, yeah. I was going to say, Mark, you've done a whole bunch of stuff. You want to talk about a couple of things? I bet you anything I'm going to mention a couple of things that you don't mention. For sure.

[00:03:13] Because when I talked to you last time, you like left out the big stuff. Like, come on. Well, you know, sometimes like I feel like when you go into certain spaces, you talk about specificity, and sometimes people don't want to hear about the other stuff. But here, let me do like a little general introduction. So, hey, guys. My name is Mark.

[00:03:28] I guess I could start with, by trade. I am a visual effects supervisor and executive producer. On the independent side, I'm a filmmaker. Also, on the independent side, I also run my own independent comic book imprint. So, I guess you could call us, or you could call me mixed media in so many ways. Had an opportunity to work on a lot of the, on some of the biggest franchises on TV.

[00:03:55] Gotham, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Westworld, Person of Interest, Runaways, T.R.D. Oh, Fallout. Fallout. So, I feel like after a while it becomes recitation. But then again, it's like when you get to Kino's experience level, it's duplicate. Like, it's double mine. So, Kino can tell him a little bit about it. Brings us to our other guest, Kino Shalaba. Again, I met you for the first time. Did I say your name correctly? Shalaba? Yeah, Shalaba. That's pretty good. I met you for the first time at the most recent Comicpalooza.

[00:04:23] Kino, Mark was saying earlier that you've got kind of a longer resume than he has. What are some of the things? Well, first off, what do you do? Would you also be visual effects supervisor? Would that be the right way to put it? No, I'm an art director, concept designer. So, my job is to come up with ideas from beginning to the end and then see it through production from beginning to the end. And what kind of shows and movies have you worked on? Oh, I worked on... Everything.

[00:04:53] Everything from Mummy to Star Trek to Avengers, Captain America, Avatar, Westworld, Game of Thrones. Walking Dead, X-Men. Amazing. Even Game of Thrones. If it's a franchise, you've... If it's anything speculative fiction, you've worked on it. Yeah. I get to play and design. Huh? I get to play and design, so it doesn't matter what it is, you know? That's awesome. Oh, that's so cool. Well, you know, you mentioned The Mummy.

[00:05:23] I looked up on IMDb. It said you did, like, matte paintings for the one... Sorry, Brendan Fraser, the one that, as everybody's always talking about, they can't wait for a new one from that. How did... Well, let me start with Keaton when we come back to Mark, I guess. How did you get started in the business? Well, I went to college for eight years on and off. I went to industrial design. I was going to go for industrial design major in transportation with a master's degree in space analysis.

[00:05:48] Basically, that means that I could design anything from any type of, like, satellite to rocket or whatever. But then I realized, you know, I'm only going to be maybe working on a small piece for maybe NASA for 10 years. Or I can go the route of Sid Mead, which was when I watched Blade Runner and I saw the designs of Blade Runner or Tron and everything. And I was like, okay, who are doing... Who's doing this stuff? And then I always realized, you know what? I rather design three, four spaceships that doesn't really fly for the movie industry.

[00:06:17] So then I got into that. But I was always into comic books. So my first year of school, I went to Joe Kubert School of Comic Book and Animation. And then after that, I just decided I'm going to go into industrial design. And I went to industrial design and got into all that. And then when I came in the movie industry, in the TV industry, I started off as a storyboard artist because comic books are storyboards. And then from storyboards to concepts.

[00:06:43] And then concepts to matte paintings and matte paintings start direction and art direction to overall everything. You know, what I'm hearing is next time I need to build an intercontinental missile, you're the one to help me out. Yeah. Or a robot that can save the world. Fair enough. And Mark, how did you get started? Well, before I go into that, I did want to share something. So Kino finally made me watch Blade Runner. And I did have a story.

[00:07:10] And one of the reasons I had, well, he made me watch it was because I had a story about an encounter with this lovely woman who you guys probably know from the original. I was at a kid's birthday party in Hollywood. And, you know, in Hollywood, you never know who you meet in Hollywood. And there was this woman that came to me. And I was like, yeah, I work in visual effects. And she goes like, have you seen the latest Blade Runner? And I go like, yeah. And then she just goes like, my name is Joanna Cassidy. And I go, excuse me? And I was like, I don't know who you are.

[00:07:39] And Kino says, that is not a statement you say to Joanna Cassidy. And she wrote it. It never happened, never again. And I was like, okay, like, who are you? So if Joanna, if you're ever listening to this, I'm so sorry. You know what? Oh, my God. Yeah. Mark, if to make you feel better, the other side of that can always work. I think I mentioned before, I have a giant banner with my face on it, my name on it.

[00:08:05] The very first time I put it up at a convention, this guy walks up to my table, stares at me, stares at me, stares at me, stares at me, stares at me, stares at the banner and goes, I'm sorry. I don't know who you are. And I was like, I'd be surprised if you did. You know, so I was like, it's okay. That is funny. But to answer your question, probably in very similar ways, but a different timeline. I think really how I got started in the industry was when I was in eighth grade, somebody gave me a crack copy of Adobe Suite. And I think that's how a lot of us started. Yeah.

[00:08:34] I think I ended up like teaching myself like some of the skills by replicating some of the visuals from, funny enough, the projects that Kino actually got to legitimately work on. Like, you know, in my high school living room, we were doing Mystique, Cyclops, Smallville shots, Charmed shots. But, you know, I grew up in the United Arab Emirates in the Middle East before moving to Australia, before moving to here. And the one thing that I didn't realize was that it was possible to come to or to work in the film industry.

[00:09:04] In fact, it was a good friend's mom that said, you're going to work in TV. And I was like, how the hell is that going to happen? But flash forward to a few years, I did start seeing the first fragments of that in Australia, but it didn't materialize there. And then I moved to Orange County, then eventually LA. Just to kind of like consolidate the story, I did end up in a school that did train us to do that. And so I learned exactly what the craft was.

[00:09:31] However, I think I was never satisfied in doing just one part of the process. So I started out as a stereoscopic compositor, basically doing the 3D conversion for things like The Little Mermaid 3D. And then also Man of Steel was my first feature. And then after that, I moved into TV. And on TV, I started on a show called Person of Interest, followed by Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[00:09:56] In fact, I argued that the reason I got hired was because I replicated a shot or a promo they did from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. that I didn't know was replicating the stuff that they did. So I started out as a visual effects generalist. And then I became a lead. My first lead show was also a comic book show, Lucifer. And then I took over a department for the department that Kina was actually a part of. Then I became the head of the department.

[00:10:25] And then I switched to being a director of digital content, which means like a lot of the marketing and PR for all that department. And then I moved to executive producing. And then now I kind of just do everything when a project requires. Elia Maria, between these two guys, how many of their shows and movies have you watched? A lot. Like, it's actually so crazy because it's like, oh, my God, y'all are making the magic happen in everything I watch. And that's blowing my mind right now. That's really cool.

[00:10:52] I love I love hearing stories from just the creative perspective and journey and seeing that, like, there's so many different parts of the creative industry that you did to, like, get to the place you are. I think that's so cool. Well, I think the industry is also constantly evolving. I would argue that the things that we do now in the give or take the next few years will evolve into a different form as well. So you always have to be constantly changing with it.

[00:11:20] Well, let me ask, Kino, you started with matte paintings, which was like the standard for movies for many, many years. Now, most of that's digital backgrounds. I don't think actually I don't think anybody uses matte paintings anymore. Well, it's considered matte paintings. Digital backgrounds is considered matte paintings. Matte paintings cover a whole thing to where you can, you know, start off maybe Photoshop or 3D type of program, put it in a bunch of layers and composite it. That's considered all matte painting now.

[00:11:48] So, Kevin, just to recap, I don't think Kino started in the traditional matte painting or on glass. Kino, I don't think you're that bold. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so you were starting to photo. The mummy and stuff, that was first time Photoshop was really being used that way. Fair enough. So when we started matte painting, everybody was doing it old school before. And then Photoshop happened. And then all of a sudden we were like, okay, we could break everything down in layers and stuff.

[00:12:18] And then I got into, I was into concepts. Then I got into matte painting because my concepts were starting to look more real every day. And they were going, okay, let's see if you can make the background here. And I was like, oh, I can make this background. And I'm like, okay, you're the matte painter. Boom. You know what? Hearing you say that, it's kind of reminding me of stories I've heard about the Jurassic Park, the first one. And also Mars Attacks. I think both of them were going to be doing stop motion. And they were like, well, let's just do some of the stuff in computer. And like, oh, this looks good in computer.

[00:12:48] Let's just run with that. So, yeah. Well, but I did want to ask though, you know, since you started, have you had to adjust your tools? How has it come adjusting with the, as the, I guess every single year is going to be brand new as far as movies goes. I feel like it's going to be something new every year. I mean, part of my success was that I evolved with time. So, a lot of my friends and a lot of artists, they tend to want to just stay with what they know and anything new.

[00:13:18] They don't want to branch out because sometimes technology for concept people and stuff like that is kind of like, okay, I'm going to spend all this time working and learning this program and I'm not creating. But I didn't have that kind of mentality because I realized that the world's ever changing and all programs and pipelines are forever changing. So, I was always a tech head anyway. And, you know, I was always into William Gibson, all that kind of stuff. So, I was like, okay, I'm going to have one of the coolest computers when all the world goes out, you know.

[00:13:46] So, I really got into technology. So, me learning software has opened the ability for me to continue on in the industry. And I just kept on like finding different ways. I didn't stick to one software. I was like, okay, what can we do with this? Well, can we do that? Because I was always somebody that liked to, you know, problem solve and bring all types of different things together. And that's kind of like what I still do. You know, this conversation kind of makes me want to ask about the elephant in the room, which is technology and where it's going.

[00:14:16] You're talking about AI. So, you know what? It's funny. We always have these conversations because as you heard, like, I'm not sure if you have. Most likely you have. Amazon just had AI on the lot where Gareth Edwards talked about the technology. And I think the answer is always the tools are always changing. But I think what doesn't change is human ingenuity. So, perhaps the one thing to ask people is, is it still worth learning the skills? And the answer is yes.

[00:14:44] Because clearly when you utilize those tools, it doesn't give you exact one-to-one what you need. But if you have the ability to utilize both manual and automated processes, you're able to create better efficiencies and actually be able to not just dictate, but really articulate what you need to accomplish with the tool sets. My response to that is whether we like it or not, the tools are here.

[00:15:09] They're becoming more integrated in almost every level of software that is considered a legacy software. So, would you prefer to be the slow one in the room or would you prefer to see how you could compete? Because it's no different than when things went digital, right? Maybe perhaps the difference is the ease is a little bit more straightforward and maybe there's still a question on the ethical considerations for sourcing. I think those are all things that still need to be ironed out.

[00:15:36] It's certainly not perfect, but the answer is cautious optimization and cautious utilization. You know, I hear people say it's no different, but there is... Photoshop was called that because it was essentially what people used to do with pasting up images. They've cut and pasted up images. So, you still had to have a person going in and finding things. Whether they had permission to use them or not, they were going through and finding things.

[00:16:00] I had to give talks about Photoshop back in the early 90s because I was doing fine art and I did fine art with Photoshop. And people were wondering how I did it. So, I had to explain when Photoshop first came out, people were thinking, you're just pushing a button and the fine art's coming out. I'm like, no, I'm actually going out, art directing photography, doing a shoot, painting on, printing it out, painting on top of it in digital form and everything. And doing shadows and everything.

[00:16:30] And this was before Photoshop was being used to do pretty much artwork and everything. So, I was getting so much backlash because of that. And then, you know, four years later, it's the number one thing to start doing artwork. Yeah, I was floored the first time I saw Fiona Staples putting together a page for Saga. I was like, wow. At that time, I couldn't even imagine the whole comic book being put together digitally.

[00:16:58] It was fairly new to me at that concept. So, I was just blown away. But the concern, of course, is that a producer going in and saying, I want Arnold Schwarzenegger jumping in and having an explosion behind him, just typing it in and letting the computer do all the work. Is that a concern that maybe you might cut out the artist? I don't believe that's his, though. That basically is the computer's.

[00:17:22] So, the thing is, if the computer had a name and the computer's name was Tim, that's basically somebody going up to Tim and going, hey, man, can you do something like this? And Tim goes, this is my version of it. And that's Tim's artwork. So, what people are not really getting at is that prompting, to me, is cool and everything. But when you prompt, you're not creating. The computer's actually creating. The only thing that's different now is that computers don't have their own id.

[00:17:50] And computers aren't singular life forms. So, we're not giving them credit for what it is. You know what I'm saying? We're just saying that, oh, the computer's part of us, but it's separate from us. So, it's kind of a weird, awkward way of humanity seeing the machine. But, Kevin, I think, sorry, to kind of recap, right? I think the ethical considerations definitely need to be examined. I mean, you're right. It's not a one-to-one translation. It is something else entirely.

[00:18:17] And, you know, really, we don't know how far it will go and how much quicker it'll evolve. And so, I think it kind of comes down to what is going to become allowed and what governments will allow it. Because, in truth, right, what could be allowable in the UK or in China may not be acceptable here. So, I think... The EU has got much stricter regulations. Exactly. But, and then, whereas Asia does not. Asia's regulations are so much looser. Well, they're changing now.

[00:18:46] Like, China's starting to change right now, their regulations. Because... Yeah, they're stronger than the US. Yep. Well, you know what? All this aside, technical stuff. AI stuff, yeah. The elephant. Part of the issue, though, is artists coming together and working together as a collective. Which, I understand, Mark, you guys are working on something like that right now? Correct. So, when you work in the field of work that we do, right? Like, when you watch something like Avengers, as an example, you have thousands and thousands of people.

[00:19:15] Because our industry, like, our craft is very layered and very complex in a way that it requires, different people with different sets of skills. So, once upon a time, Kino and I worked at one studio. And that was by happenstance. This time around, we're choosing to work together with a collection of excellent studios from all over the world that have different specializations that have worked on things like Black Bear, Avatar The Last Airbender. Or, again, what else?

[00:19:44] Like, a lot of music videos, considering that is also very relevant. It really is different studios with different specialties able to create more than one studio can. Or able to collaborate to create or to work on things that more than one studio can accommodate. I think what Kino was saying earlier was that, like, people need to get the experts to come in and give them their take on stuff. And with a collective like that, companies can come and get access to those experts, I guess, right? Yeah.

[00:20:14] 100%. With the experts guiding them and overseeing things so we can make sure that all, you know, all the companies and everything that works together are consistent in their delivery of production. So, you know, going specifically into Nerd Talk, we have people that, we have companies that are experts in CG, experts in gaming cinematics. We have a creature shop. We have a digital makeup shop.

[00:20:38] And we have an integration studio that is, what do you call that, that specializes in seamless integration of shots and also stitch shots like Birdman. So, for reference, our group is called Surreal Arts Group. That's surrealartsgroup.com if people are curious as to what types of work the company has done in their individual reels. And it also, you just get to see some really cool visuals when you check out the website.

[00:21:05] You mentioned Birdman, which is always one of those really big, like, visual movies. I'm jumping back and forth here, but, like, Mark, what is the, like, if you could pick, like, one or two things that you, like, my mark, my mark, pun not intended. I am in that. I was going to say, I put my mark on that, but that's. Oh, my God. There's so many. All right. Let's start. But God, finish your question. No, no. I was just going to ask it. Go ahead. Go ahead. Start with what? All right. So, hmm. Mark on that, right? Like. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What's the question?

[00:21:35] Well, the question was, like, what's, if the things you've done in the past, what is something that was either really exciting or interesting or you can't believe it happened? Or are you just so proud of it? Any of those things. I don't know if it's can't believe it happened, because I think once you work in as many projects we have, everything seems like, everything seems like it's work that you accomplish. It's more of, like, okay, I think I like the framing of the earlier part of the question. Like, where do you felt like you made your mark? And give us specific examples.

[00:22:04] So, I love that you mentioned Birdman. Like, do you guys remember a show called Pitch on Fox? I have not seen that one. So, that's right. It's not a comic book show, but for that show in particular, we replicated, you remember that, Kino? We replicated the Birdman look by stitching, I would say, three to five different shots and made it seem like it was one shot. So, that's something, and that's something more general.

[00:22:28] But on the comic book side of shows, like, let's say, Gotham as an example, I'd say my first major sequence on Gotham was working out with the episode 10 season finale. I think I really had an opportunity to help define the look of Arkham Asylum for that sequence. I kind of linked into the day shots, but in the night shots, I started taking over it in season two. So, got to work on helping build that asset as you see it on the show.

[00:22:57] But for season two, no, it's not season two, for season three, season three was very gory in particular. So, if you saw a lot of gore, likely my team worked on it. But I think my biggest contribution for season three was when we built a digital makeup look. Remember when he got infected by the virus? I think it was somewhat the Bane virus or the Craze virus. I forget what they call it now.

[00:23:21] But creating the look and plus helping artists implement that with a tech that was new at the time. The tech is not new anymore, but at the time when we did that sequence, the tool was still in beta. So, kind of like being able to do that for a show that delivers every two weeks was both exciting and terrifying at the same time. So, I have stuff I want to ask you about, but first, Kino, how about you?

[00:23:50] I would say it was really cool working on, I worked on Guardians of the Galaxy 3, worked on the suits, the main suits and everything. And I worked on the space suits and worked on a bunch of other stuff. But what was cool about that job was that I had to go in to Marvel and they had all the suits of the first movie and the second movie all in one room with all the props.

[00:24:16] And they said, study every single suit here and study every single prop. And they're like, okay, study it. And I was all like, okay, I know what I'm going to put together and everything. And they're like, okay, you studied everything? Don't use anything that you just studied. And I was like, what? And I was like, oh. So, they were like, okay, we want something kind of like an air flight suit, space suit. So, they gave me all these different other things.

[00:24:43] And that job was so fun because I got to go there and I would go home and do our work. But I also got to go there and be surrounded by all the suits and look at them and be able to move things around. And just like, it was insane. And then I just recently worked on Spider-Man Noir, which was really cool.

[00:25:04] I helped come up with the design of Sandman, Electro, how he's using his powers, how Electro looks, and then the spider webs and stuff like that. But one of my early ones that I probably was very excited to work on is I got to work on the first X-Men and helped design with Cerebro and Xavier. And they're looking around for different mutants and everything. So, that was really cool. But there was so much other stuff. I mean, I'm pretty much excited about almost anything I work on anyway.

[00:25:34] Well, Kevin, I'll actually share something on the Cerebro part. On one of our latest comic books that comes out at STCC, hopefully there are no delays, fingers crossed. I was actually referencing that sequence but was telling it to another artist who was a common colleague of ours when I could have just called Kino. See, like when you've worked in this industry for so long, like you don't know who of your friends work on what.

[00:25:57] Like had I known Kino designed that, I would have literally just been like, hey, Kino, I'm trying to do this sequence that kind of reminds me of the sequence that you designed. Instead, I gave it to somebody else who never worked on it because I did it now. You know, it's funny. I hear all these things and I – so I'm a comic book historian. People come to me like, oh, what is this reference? What is this reference? And that's cool. But you guys have the stuff that's actually there on the screen. I know we were at Comicpalooza and somebody walked by in a Star-Lord costume and I think, Kino, you were like, I made that. And Star-Lord came over to get his picture with you. So that was pretty cool.

[00:26:26] Talking on the Marvel stuff, Mark, I think you told me previously that you did some of the early Deathlock stuff on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. And I think one of the things I'd asked you was, you know, whenever you're designing something, it's – is it – I guess I'm asking right now, is it a combination of like, here's what we want versus here's what our budget is? Or do you just kind of like throw everything out there and let them figure it out? So I think what's interesting during that time, and I say during that time, is because it was still on broadcast television, right?

[00:26:56] It wasn't necessarily streaming. So what was interesting, both fun and stressful about broadcast television, is it aired when it's supposed to air. So to answer your question, I don't think the budget was really as much in consideration. I'm sure it was. But this was also when I was in my second year into the industry and my first year into TV. So I would actually almost say that I was very honored that I got that opportunity because that was terrifying.

[00:27:24] That was the first time you saw the Deathlock HUD on TV. I remember, you know, where I was at the time in terms of confidence level of being able to pull something off like that. And I was definitely nervous, so to speak. But I think what's great about it is if there's an air date, you have to get whatever you get to by that air date. So that oftentimes is the definition of the constraint of what you have.

[00:27:52] But to answer your question, Kevin, it really was a collaboration between myself. And you know what? It's interesting because I would typically have said that myself and the graphics lead. But in this case, he was busy on something else. So it really was myself and the visual effects supervisor of the show. And again, during that time, during that place in my career, that was terrifying. But it was also extremely gratifying. I mean, that's the ground floor of the MCU.

[00:28:21] So we didn't think about it during that time. Yeah, and I always wonder how much leniency I guess there is crazy from each of y'all that y'all have. It's like, is there a certain skeleton that you have to stick to? Or is it like, oh, can we do an experiment with the future things? Yeah, for TV and movie, it's completely different.

[00:28:42] TV, you have access to like, maybe you can just change things because they know that budgetary stuff and replication of what suits are and stuff like that. They have a lot more okay that they can't, you know, they can't really do it with that budget. But like in movies, like when I'm designing suits and stuff. I mean, for example, the main suit I've designed may be 40 different suits. Wow.

[00:29:09] And then they take those 40 different suits all throughout the process, break it apart, and then try to combine all that together. And by the time you come up with the last design, it's pretty much all those 40 different suits put together. Or it can end up being suit number two, which happens. Yeah. That is very true. But I think you get Kino's point, Kevin. Time is always a factor. So on TV, it almost has to be like a very direct goal because you don't have as much time to ideate.

[00:29:38] And oftentimes, like, Kino, would you say how long would a concept design process be for a film? Oh, I mean, like, okay, for the suits, I had only two to three, four weeks. But still on TV, that goes down to four days, two days, three days. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. That goes down, okay, you got three days to come up to concept. What? Because, like, on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., right, that was a bi-weekly show. Or no, that was a weekly show. Oh, yeah.

[00:30:08] So we were lucky if we got an episode two to three weeks in advance. But oftentimes, it's about a week. I was doing concepts, like, a week before Comp had them. Yes. And I was like, okay. Yeah, some of the most terrifying ones were a producer's right behind you because it has to be at the studio by two because it airs at six. Wow. That's, I can't even imagine. Yeah. That's why everybody's shaking like a little chihuahua in the highway.

[00:30:36] I got to tell you, though, as a writer, when I'm right up on that deadline, like, I need it by this afternoon, suddenly I'm going to write really well. Yeah. Well, you mentioned earlier that was back in the days of broadcast. And then you said TV versus film is very different. Streaming, is that somewhere in the middle? I want to specifically, Kino, you mentioned Spider-Man Noir. Streaming is TV. This is true, but, like, is the time? Well, let me ask you this much. What went into making the Spider-Man stuff from your point of view? What are the things you did with Spider-Man Noir?

[00:31:07] Like, the look of a Sandman. So, they wanted something completely different than the previous Sandmans of the movies and stuff like that. And a lot of those designs and looks had a copyright issue associated with them, too. So, they were looking to make sure that nothing looked like that. So, same with the Electro powers and stuff like that and Spider-Man webs and everything.

[00:31:33] So, we had to go, since it was noir, we had to go through a dark and more gritty and more grounded design, I would say. Was there an effort of trying to make sure it would look good in black and white first? When I got to design it, I had to do two versions. I had to do a version of black and white. So, I had to make sure it looked good in black and white. And sometimes what looks good in black and white doesn't look good in color, too.

[00:32:03] So, I was constantly, like, making the images make sure that whatever I can do, I could just put a black and white filter over it. And it'll look the way I want it in both worlds. Which, that part was really hard to do. Because I couldn't give them a color version that was really cool and a black and white version that was really cool. They wanted something that was cool either way that they could just switch black and white. And, of course, they're going to do their little effects on.

[00:32:27] But, that part was really, really, you know, pretty hard to do. But, Kevin, I do have something to add to that question. So, Elia Maria, did you watch Lucifer? Yes. So, if you recall, between season three and season four, Lucifer went from streaming or from airing on Fox to streaming on Netflix.

[00:32:48] So, when it was streaming on Fox, we really didn't have time to work on a lot of the ideation of a lot of the designs. Whereas, when it went to Netflix, all of a sudden, we had six months to prepare for an episode. Because there wasn't an air date. Like, there was an internal deadline. But there wasn't necessarily an air date or even a release date. I'm sure there was. But we didn't know about it.

[00:33:15] But, so, it kind of, like, gave you a lot more time to create concept work. But also refine the visual effects process. Because, if you guys recall, in season three, the most complex version of the devil face was literally him saying, what did he say? Hello, detective? Or something along that. He said one line. Or, no, he said detective. All he said was one line and that was it. Whereas, in season four and season five, he now had the full articulate devil body. And that was concepted. That was motion captured.

[00:33:44] That was designed. And we had to do the feather wings and stuff. Remember those, right? Exactly. So, you do get, once you have more time, once it jumps from broadcast to streaming, you do have a little bit more time. Yeah, it just depends on if they're doing all the episodes in one or they're breaking in a part two. Yeah. Because sometimes they try to think out. And they go, okay, we only have two, three episodes. And we've got to make sure the pilot's out. It's like, okay. It's like.

[00:34:12] And then afterwards, if it gets greenlit to a further, then it becomes easier. I am one of those people that has still not watched Project Hail Mary. But I bring that up. Well, okay. Wow. Okay. There's two. I had a sleep through it because I went pretty late and I had some alcohol. I need to see it. But anyway, the reason I bring it up, the reason I bring it up is because there was this discourse about it when it was before it came out where I think the director had said that they had physical. No, what did he say? He said, we didn't have a lot of CGI. So, I don't remember the exact phrasing he used.

[00:34:40] And people on Twitter and stuff went nuts saying, oh, well, see, this is a movie that is all real. There's no, you know, fake. No, I know how exactly it was made. Yeah. He had to walk it back later. He's like, no, no, no. I didn't mean that. I didn't mean that. In the fandom discussions of like practical versus VFX, is that distinction as strong as the fans might try to make it sound?

[00:35:08] Fans don't understand what really is happening. They don't understand that really for everything to be created is a mixture of almost everything. It's like you can't do one thing alone. It doesn't really work. It doesn't look good. There's many other things. You do something completely CG, your flame will never look the same. Your light won't look the same. Like, remember when we watched Blade Runner, the textures on objects versus CG textures things? That kind of stuff doesn't look.

[00:35:37] So, it's a combination of everything. And you have these people that just become like zealots. It's like, I only want, you know, only this way and this way. It's like, no, it's pretty much all the ways put together, you know? And that's the same with AI is going to happen. It's like, it's all going to be better. It's going to confuse people even more. So, Kevin, here's a more layered answer to that. And I think one of my more layered answers is that oftentimes it's great PR to say that there's no CG. And I don't know why.

[00:36:06] Because, but the truth of the matter is almost everything that you see on TV, especially if it's even decently budgeted, has a layer of digital effects, whether it's visible or not visible. And, I mean, even when you think about things like a Christopher Nolan project, when you think Oppenheimer, right? Fine. He didn't opt for a CG explosion and they filmed those. But how they layered those together, unless they were doing some chemical process that I don't know, is still digital.

[00:36:36] They did additional Houdini stuff on top of things. Yeah. And the same with Hail Mary. In Hail Mary, they had the cube thing moving around with two sticks, which was real. And then everything inside of Reflections was CG after the base of 3D built on it. So it's like, you know, it's a combination of almost everything, you know? I think back to Black Swan with Natalie Portman years ago. When that one, they were trying to get it promoted for the Oscars,

[00:37:03] they'd released a, like a reel of like behind the scenes on YouTube. And I remember, because the obvious stuff, like, oh, the feathers in the back and those kind of things going on. But floorboards, curtains, you know, things that I think a lot of people that are like practical versus CGI, they're not realizing that all of those little details, all those little details are adjusted in post, essentially. Yeah.

[00:37:27] Usually when people, when they shoot people and stuff, you're lucky that you have a space that is maybe 10 feet wide that's real objects around you. You'll be grateful if you have that. Usually you only have something like that. And then everything else, they have to design and extend the set digitally, you know? Yeah, like I was looking through your reel, Mark, and like just being able to see the layers from just one visual effect alone.

[00:37:57] That's one element to it. When you think about all the different layers that go into just one scene, because there's lighting, there's sound, there's color grading. Like, it's not just, oh, we filmed this, there we go. You know, there's so many different elements. I agree. And when you break down visual effects as well, what visual effects really is, is it's an entire industry that is a replication of turning what was done physically into digital,

[00:38:23] whether that's puppetry, whether that's special effects explosions or water or whatnot, or lighting, cinematography, all of those are just converted into the digital space. That's what visual effects is. Many different techniques and disciplines just converted into the digital space. Let's pause for a quick second. Ellie and Maria mentioned your sizzle reel. Actually, I'm going to do this for the editor to notice. Pausing. Sorry. It was a few seconds ago. Anyway, yeah, our editor, by the way, is amazing.

[00:38:53] Yeah, he's, ever since he came on, he's been adding a whole bunch of cool stuff, sometimes sound effects and little digital things. It's great. Anyway, what I was going to, she mentioned your sizzle reel, and I was going to ask you, I meant to ask before we started recording. Are there, like, is there a behind-the-scenes clip or clips that we could use, like, in the YouTube version of this and then kind of go back to talking about it? So what I could do is I could send you specific things that have been released on YouTube that I can, that I did not specifically post. Fair enough. Yeah, so.

[00:39:22] Ideally, though, it would be a file so the editor could put it in there. If not, it's okay. I'll give you a file. I'll give you a file of things that you're allowed to kind of, like, mix in. Obviously, he knows they're published on his website. Reels, people are a little bit finicky, but. Well, I know what the reels are more for you to, like, a resume thing. Correct. Yeah, that's why I was saying is there something we could use? Yeah, and I could certainly send you some clips to kind of, like, in between, and those are, like, public domain. Not public domain, but they've been. In the public. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:52] Well, if you can get that, like, ideally by this weekend or by Friday. For sure. So what I'm going to do when we come back is kind of, like, jump towards it and say, hey, we're going to look at this. And then afterwards, I was thinking about, I went to the ATX TV Fest recently, which is the kind of behind-the-scenes TV stuff. And I want to mention to you guys what I saw, and then I'd love to get your feedback on it so we can talk about it, if that's okay. All right. Or is there anything else that we want to make sure we cover before I jump to that? No, I think nothing really.

[00:40:19] I mean, we can keep on ranting about the same thing over and over again. I mean, it's fun. I was just going to say my upcoming comic. Yes. Well, let's do that. Let's do that first. So, because, Mark, I also want to mention your company, too. So let's get to that real quick. So let's jump back in. I'm going to mention that, and then we'll go to actually, let's do your comics first. All right. So, ready? Well, I mean, Elia Maria Matiz saw your stuff, and you mentioned earlier, Mark, that you also have a comic book company.

[00:40:48] I know that you talked about, when I met you at Comicpalooza University, we talked about Filipino representation in a lot of things. And I know that you'd also been promoting other creators as well. What have you done with your company, with your comics, Mark? Yeah, for sure. I think, really, in the beginning, it was more about representation. But I think as we've morphed, it became a collective as well of different creators just coming together because we have chemistry. We've worked together. We like similar material.

[00:41:17] So, one of the things that we actually tailored or one of the things that we discovered in terms of how we promote ourselves is, like, hi, I'm this. But in my comic book spaces, I tend to lean more, I would say, mythology, kind of like taking an American gods feel. So, my comic series, Carmina, is kind of like about this young woman who finds out that her mother is a goddess from mythologies of a different universe, right? From Asian mythology, Tolkien mythology. Whereas Kino's, I think, if you want to talk about it, Kino.

[00:41:47] Mine is called Mod Squad. Mine is basically, it's a, in the eyes of a captain that he's in charge of a ragtag team during a world war. And it's a love story, basically. And what happens when this being comes down, smashes down, and half the people think he's the messiah and the other half doesn't. It creates a big holy war. So, it's a story. Story of my life. The story about, story about Earth and another planet. Yeah. But to recap. This is Dewada Comics.

[00:42:17] So, it's Surreal Art Studios and Dewada Comics. So, I think, if anything, once again, right back to the comic conventions, we'll be at San Diego Comic Con, where Kino will be debuting the full version of Mod Squad. And plus, for us, we'll have a new, we'll have our new Icons anthology. And we'll have a table there, and you'll be able to come over and visit us. And we're also going to be on a couple of panels over there. Yep. Discussing things. So, it'll be fun.

[00:42:45] I should be there, too, actually. I'm going to be on a couple panels out there. I don't know which ones yet. I actually need to get my room, now that I think about it. That would be good. Oh, yeah. I haven't done that yet. I haven't done that yet. Well, speaking of conventions, I recently went to the ATX TV Festival in Austin, which, you know, I've gone to South by Southwest every year for the past, I don't know, 10, 15 years. But ATX TV Fest is focused, obviously, as the name implies, specifically on TV.

[00:43:14] But what's really neat to me is that while there were, you know, actors and some episode premieres there, that kind of stuff, it's largely the behind-the-scenes stuff where fans can talk to the showrunner, to producers, you know, the whys and hows of things. Like, for example, the very first thing I got to do there was the Vampire Lestat, where showrunner Roland Jones was, like, willing to talk with fans, not just on stage, but afterwards, walked outside and talked with anybody who had questions for, like, an hour and a half on the street, on the sidewalk. Wow. It was kind of crazy.

[00:43:44] But we got to see one. We just finished season two. Can't wait for season three. Are you talking about Vampire Lestat? Mm-hmm. Wait, you finished the special effects of season two of Lestat? No, no, no, no. I finished watching Lestat. Oh, you're catching up. Okay. I'm caught up. I was like, wow, you're ahead. Yeah, we've been re-watching the previous, well, it's kind of weird. Technically, it's a new series, but it's also the next season, so it's both at the same time.

[00:44:12] But we've been kind of catching up while re-watching them all. But it's a lot of fun hearing how they'd be mixing in music, or they're making brand new music, making it sound like older, especially glam rock kind of stuff. I also, let's see, I got to do the, they had an I Love Lucy anniversary where they had a bunch of actors reading it, which was fun. But what I really enjoyed was the discussions of the topics. Like one of them was bringing sexy back, which is about how there's an increase of like sex in movies, TV shows and streaming.

[00:44:38] But specifically stuff like Outlander to Heated Rivalry, you know, where it's like a different, where sex is part of the storytelling. And it's often with a more female or queer audience in mind. And then the other thing, which was a really- Scabier Witches, too, is an example of that. Exactly. And then the other one was called Nuclear Renaissance on TV.

[00:44:59] And it was hosted by Christine Wormuth, who was in charge of the Army under Biden and is now CEO of the Nuclear Threat Initiative. And I didn't even know this was a thing, but they work with TV shows and movies specifically to help get that message out there of like, nukes are bad, which, you know. So that has to be remessaged, I guess. Yes, apparently it does.

[00:45:26] The guy, I got to meet the director of The Day After. Keto, do you remember when that came out? Yeah. On TV? I was little and I remember it. I remember working on that stuff, digital domain and stuff like that. And I remember all the water sequences and the buildings, all different passes and stuff. Oh, my God. Wait, you mean The Day After Tomorrow? Yeah. Oh, I meant The Day After. It was the TV show. It was a TV movie from 1983. 1983. So The Day After, for those of you guys who don't know, it was-

[00:45:54] Is that the one where they were in the hills and then they got radioactive over a time period? Yes. That movie was scary. Okay. So it was a made-for-TV movie. Yeah. And the director, Nick Baer, he was saying like, you know, I didn't expect anybody to watch it. He thought they wouldn't even air it. But apparently somebody pulled some strings and forced them to air it. And apparently it was the most watched TV movie ever up to that point. Wow. And Reagan actually cited it as a reason he signed the accords with the Soviet Union of like, they did not want this to happen.

[00:46:23] And so- It was the only show that they ever showed where they showed the progression of months of people thinking they escaped the bomb and they kept on going up higher up the mountain. And all of a sudden, they're like, two months later, they started getting stomach cancer. They start falling apart internally. And it was like, oh my God, dude. Wow, I'd love to watch this. Yeah. It was on TV. It was crazy. Wow. I thought there was somebody big in it.

[00:46:50] I want to see Molly Ragnall, but I don't think it was her, but there was somebody big, some big actress in it too. It was just this idea that a movie, especially a movie where the director thought no one was going to end up watching it. John Lithgow's in it, you know? Yeah. There you go. Yeah. That it could change the world. And the whole discussion just kind of blew my mind. Is that something that movies can do today, movies and TV shows? Can we change minds like that? I mean, I think so.

[00:47:20] I think like, you know, you almost discount the fact that these are widely accessed by millions and millions of people. So I think with the right message, it can certainly affect how people think and feel. I think we prevented Planet of the Apes. True. Well, so far. Timeline keeps getting pushed by. It's now such a big fear that now we're going somewhere else. Yeah. We're going where, well, I think it's going towards, you know, the EMP bomb, you know? Which we're also discussed at the panel.

[00:47:50] Yeah, which is like, you know, the new dark ages will be the end of technology. You wipe out technology, two-thirds of the population will go out because they don't know how to feed themselves. They don't know how to get medical and so on. And then all of a sudden information and everything. I think that's the, that's the, that's the one I think. If we were just having a conversation, I'd be a great warlord. I'll be leader of the northern tribe. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be.

[00:48:28] I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. I'll be. Forbidden areas. They won't know why. Anyway, sorry.

[00:48:57] I remember cult, the, the implant of the apes, the cult of the bomb, Omega, Alpha Omega cult. All the, the, the people with the baby mask and they worship the ultimate bomb. It's like, oh my God. Man, I love all those movies. Which is fun when we talk about the silly stuff, but the people that were there, the people who make like the paradise TV show. Oh yeah. I like that show. I'm trying to remember some of the other shows that, that, that there were there that people that were on stage talking about it. And they were talking about real stuff.

[00:49:27] Like we're talking about the EMP weapon, which some people say exists and people say doesn't, which basically would just deactivate. I think the way they worded it was a technology after every, every technology after a certain point where technology starts being reliable, reliant on certain methods of getting electricity across. And which is like from the seventies onwards, something like that. And then the other big one is the Poseidon torpedo, which they were talking about, like they had to verify it was real. But I remember when Putin announced this, they have a, that Russia has a torpedo that

[00:49:54] could take out like a whole coastal state essentially. Wow. And it is not detectable. So without a happy conversation, can we use these movies to change minds? You know? Oh, I think, I think so. And I think comic books too, because my comic book is about, you know, they, my comic book is about the world failing because they got into DNA wars. So there became something called DNA wars.

[00:50:20] And then all of a sudden the DNA aftermath of the missiles start changing and mutating everything around. So I was like, okay, maybe this will tell, you know, a future where there'll be no mutations of DNA wars. And I think that's what all books are too. And movies are like warnings of possible, you know, possible realities. Exactly. Mark. I know when I watch things, oh, sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh yeah. No. Yeah.

[00:50:47] I, when I watch things like lately, I've been watching the testaments and it's one of those things where I'm like, wow, if only like we could show this to a certain amount of people take notes. Cause I don't know. Seems a little bit tomorrow. Yeah. Prophetic. Yeah. Yeah. I was just gonna say, Mark, we're talking about comics and movies. Could you imagine comics being turned into movies or vice versa? I mean, I feel like that's our, that's our entire career and existence, right? That has been. That's our goal. Yeah.

[00:51:15] We're, you know, I'm trying to push my squad as a, I mean, I'm at the same time I'm doing a comic book. I'm also designing two games on it and pushing as a Japanese anime, writing a book and possibly TV show or movie. It's like all of us want to, you know, Mark two has something in paper so he can convince others that this is cool enough to come to real life. We don't have a concept. And I think to come to that, right.

[00:51:41] It's like Kino has an unreal version of ModSquad already circulating online. And for me, I have a live action version that's been seen at the various conventions. I'm not ready to put it out in general public yet, but we have been showing it at different conventions. Are you guys showing San Diego? Yeah, most likely. And then I know you met with Red 5, the publisher put out a book. Oh yeah, Afterburn. Speaking of post-autileptic, right? So I think the story for Afterburn is while all technology failed and the world is plunged

[00:52:11] into the dark ages. Yay! For Red 5 comics. And then you know that, remind me, was that a movie based on the comic or vice versa? It is a movie based on the comic starring Samuel L. Jackson and Dave Bautista. And Elia Maria, just as an interesting side note, what ended up happening was when we were at Comicpalooza, somebody who came to our booth who was interested in the digital effects society was carrying a poster for that particular movie. And I was like, why do you have that? And then they go like, the creator's over there. I'm like, what?

[00:52:41] Because I'm like, I executive produced that with a company in Hungary where it was, because it was shot in Eastern Europe. I forget the exact locations, but a company in Hungary that I work with happened to be one of the vendors who did the visual effects. And I was the executive producer and visual effects supervisor. So it was just like mind blown. Like you just never know where people are going to show up and where we get to collaborate. See, that's the thing. When you guys are involved with everything, there's always going to be somebody there. Oh, very likely. Yeah.

[00:53:08] Well, before we wrap this up, I kind of want to talk to you guys about movies. Before we started recording, we started chatting about some movies we've really seen recently or in the past. I know, Kino, you said you showed Mark the Blade Runner, but then you and I started chatting about Rock and Rule, which I think Mark and LA Media, neither of you had heard of before or neither had seen before? Nope. Mark, how would you describe that cartoon? I mean, it looks like Rescuers Down Under.

[00:53:39] Kino, what is it? What was that called? It's not motion capture. Oh, it was Rotoscope. They had a lot of Rotoscopes. That was like the start of Rotoscoping movies too. Oh, really? Because, you know, before that. Yeah, really taken off in the, like, Fire and Ice and stuff. Yeah, because of Fire and Ice. Number one Rotoscoping movie that with Ralph Baski backgrounds and all types of stuff, you know? Yeah. And so that, you know, that was before 3D models. Yeah.

[00:54:09] So they were like, okay, how can we make this look 3D still 2D? So that was the evolution of 2D. It is such an interesting movie. Apparently it started off at one point, it was going to be like a kid's movie with like talking mice. And then it evolved into an adults only movie that was about like humanoids and the apocalypse. And then they tried to split the difference and make it like, well, it's going to be a little bit of both. And it's humanoids. It's humanoids and apocalypse are from mutations of DNA stuff.

[00:54:39] Which happens in the animal, animals, animal humanoids exist. No humans really exist. But the music. Debbie Harry, Earth, Wind and Fire, Iggy Pop. And they made all the music. The actor, the musician made all the music for that movie. That album was released. It was so good. Yeah, yeah. It was so good. Like the movie's interesting, but like the music is genius. Yeah, yeah. They're being played on Tubi right now, by the way.

[00:55:09] Same thing with The Day After. It's on YouTube. Yeah. Which is something we need to add. You know what's funny is I saw that when I was a toddler, I guess. But like I remembered it because it's that kind of movie. And I would tell other kids about it. They were like, no, that never happened. That's not a real thing. Because again, before Google, you know. Yeah. Adults knew it. How about you guys? Any like cult classic movies that you think people should check out? Whether it's so bad it's good or just interesting? Well, I was just talking to somebody earlier.

[00:55:38] Maybe you can explain to me. Well, the thing is I always run my, you know, have you seen Mad Max, Legend, Ultron, Blade Runner? Wait, Ultron? The Tron one. First Tron. Oh, Tron. Tron. The old Tron. Okay. Yeah. And then I'm always thinking of Fantastic Planet, the animation. A lot of people do not know that. Yeah. That's actually, it's French, right? Yeah. I've been showing a lot of these to my partner recently. And next on the list is Legend.

[00:56:06] You know, literally a friend of hers was like, yeah, you got to see this. Tom Cruise is like showing everything off. Yeah. He's an elf. Yeah. It's something else. Like that. Yeah. And it's the sexiest version of Tim Curry that has ever been. Yeah. Have you seen, you guys, have you seen Legend? No. Yeah. You need to check that out. It's before Lord of the Rings movies. Yep. But it's when they first started doing orcs and little goblins and trolls. It's like Star Wars came out and the movie theater, movies companies are like, we need something similar.

[00:56:36] And they're like, what about sword and sorcery? And it was just so weird. Okay. Well, there's so many old stuff that's cool. Space Hunter, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So you see Fantastic Planet, Elmedia? Yeah. I'm looking at the art right now and I'm sold. I have to see. Yeah. And that is what it looks like in motion. That's what it looks like in motion, too. That's amazing. But I say motion, it's very limited frame rate, but like it's still there, you know? Yeah. It's generally in the story. It's incredible. Yeah.

[00:57:03] I mean, how many people are never-ending story fans? Of course. Oh, yeah. I would not want them to remake that. Like, leave it. Yeah, yeah. I do. But for a reason. Leave it alone. Let me explain. Let me explain. Because I look at that movie. Did you see the movie The Fall? Yes. Yeah. The one with the, I can't remember, Tarsem. The guy who did the cell. Yes. Tarsem. So in the fall, you have this guy. It takes place in the early 1900s.

[00:57:29] And this guy is telling stories because he grew up reading Old West novels, right? And the little girl listening to it, she grew up in Eastern Asia. So everything he says, she's visualizing through her lens. So when he says the Indian, and he's talking about Native American, she's visualizing a sick person. And so it's like, it's really, really visually cool. The way I would want to see the never-ending story done is have somebody from a different culture pick it up. Okay. And all of the stuff they visualize would look not at all.

[00:58:00] Like, think about the Luck Dragon. Every culture would see that entirely differently. You know what I mean? We'd call it something else. Well, yeah, obviously. But I mean, I do kind of like the idea of like taking something and then like remaking it every so many years, but from a different point of view. You know what I mean? Like do something. You can't just remake it shot for shot. You can't do that psycho thing. Just remake it. Yeah. I got a weird one. I don't think any of you have watched. I'm going to take a guess on this one. We recently got the Criterion streaming service. Yeah.

[00:58:28] And there's a 1963 Czechoslovak movie. Okay. Called Ikari XB1. I-K-A-R-I-E XB1. I.E. And it's basically, this is the movie that Stanley Kubrick says inspired him to make 2001. Yeah, I thought you were going to say the Solaris guy. Well, that one too. But the thing is that like there's scenes in this that are 100% like Stanley Kubrick just did that with a better budget. Yeah. Like again, not story. Not story. Story is also very good. But like visuals.

[00:58:56] There are visuals in this that are like, I can't believe they put much thought into this with like the budget of 10 bucks. You know? Did you ever see the dark backward with Judd Nelson? Oh, I'm not. And basically it's a world that is surrounded by pork. So everything is made of pork. Toothpaste, hairbrush, everything's made of pork. And the thing is, he's a comedian. As in P-O-R-K? Yeah, as in P-O-R-K. I need to watch this. And so he's a comedian that nobody may, and James Caan, everybody, Bill Paxton.

[00:59:25] So he's a guy that grows an arm out of his back. And now he's super funny. And all of a sudden he doesn't want to be a freak. So he gets the arm kind of like cut off. But then he loses his powers of comedic. And it is a crazy, dark, weird visual movie. It's like one of those movies like City of Lost Children type movie. You guys see that, right? Well, the way you're describing it is making me think of Freaked. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:59:51] The Alex Winter movie that Keanu Reeves is secretly in but uncredited. He made it right after Bill and Ted. And he asked Keanu if he'd be in it. And he is. And he's in full makeup, so you can't tell it's him. And he's not in the credits either. So it's kind of funny. It is a very disturbingly weird movie. Yeah, Rob Lowe's in it. It's an Adam Rifkin movie. Oh, I thought – which one are you talking about? The Dark Backward. Oh, Dark Backward. Okay, yeah, yeah. I was trying to see the director's name. I need to take a look at that one. Yeah. All right.

[01:00:20] I'm enjoying this like weird movie. Like I'm making a list now of things we need to watch. Yeah, I have all these times. Well, you know, a really cool movie that – that is fun for world building and weird to me, that I watched recently, is a movie called Vesper. Have you guys seen that? Actually, you know what? That was on my watch list for a while now. I just haven't gotten to it. That movie's strange. That's cool. Good movie to watch. Vesper. B-E-S-P-E-R. Sounds familiar. Yep. I mean, obviously it's a word. 2022? Yes.

[01:00:50] It's really – I definitely have not seen it. No. I definitely have not seen that. Interesting. You know what that makes me think of? Actually, as I'm thinking about movies that kind of threw under the radar, I kind of liked Skyline, if I remember correctly. I designed – I was the art director of Skyline. I designed all the creatures and all that kind of stuff. There were two movies that came out around the same time. It was Skyline, and I don't remember what the other one was. He was on Battle of L.A. He was on Battle of L.A.

[01:01:13] He was on Battle of L.A. and then Battle of L.A. picked only a certain look of stuff, so there was a lot of stuff that was just left over. So they thought that we used that stuff for the Skyline stuff,

[01:01:40] and we didn't because I designed both of the shows. Me, like Battle of L.A. was me and this other artist called Paul Jarrett, and then Skyline was just me. I think Skyline was the lower budget one, if I remember correctly. Yeah, Skyline was a lower budget one. And we made sure that all the designs were completely different, and we wanted everything, but they just wanted to see if they could get more money out of VFX because they didn't have enough budget, and they wanted to make –

[01:02:10] Battle of L.A. was such a heavy hit on budget and pricing and everything, and all the stuff that they were trying to do was kind of out there. Tina, are you allowed me to talk about that? Mark? Tina, are you? Are you allowed? Yeah, did you cut that out? Are you allowed to talk about that? Yeah. I mean, it's a bad thing. If it's in the court, it's public record already. Yeah, it's in the past, and I mean, I've been in a bunch of weird kind of like stuff like that, but that's just common in the industry, you know?

[01:02:38] Well, with all that in mind, real quick, anything you guys are looking forward to, movies or TV, especially if it's something that you've not been involved with? I am watching He-Man on Thursday, first thing. I will see it. I will. I'm so behind right now on movies, but I will see it. Elia Medea, anything you're looking forward to? Yeah, He-Man. I want to see it. I'm really excited for it. I don't know if I'll be there opening day, but – I'm not sure if I'm cosplaying it. I'm not ready for that. I'm a – okay, I need to –

[01:03:09] Man, I want to be – I can't – what's his – Battering Ram guy. What's his name? I can't remember his name right now. Matt and Arm? No, no, not Matt and Arm. It's the guy who's like juggernaut but squat. From manual. Ugh. Shoot. I'll do something. That's going to be great. What's his name? Ram Man. The only thing people are not wanting to see is stuff that's only in even pre-production, you know? So it's like –

[01:03:37] I've been waiting for a Judge Dredd thing to come out forever. Aren't we all? Yes. The last one was good. All right. With all that said, I think we should call tonight. We can get some sleep and everybody here can listen in to the next episode of my Primus Podcast. But in the meantime, Keno, how can people find you online? Like website or social medias or whatever you want?

[01:04:02] You can go to my website, Keno Shalaba Art Station. Just look for my name on Art Station. And that Shalaba is S-C-I-A. Yeah. If you type in my name, you'll find Art Station stuff and you'll find LinkedIn and Instagram stuff. So. All right. Mark, how do we find you online? I'm very easily Googleable. Just Google my name. But otherwise, you can find me at MarkFX411. I am so jealous of both you guys. I hate that I type in my name.

[01:04:31] I am not in the top hits. I need to think of a fix that. There's two of me. And one is a doctor from Kentucky. And I'm pretty sure that's not. Well, I was going to say you are Mark A.J. Correct. But when you put that, I'm the only person as far as I'm concerned. But is that one of those like, well, I guess not screen actor, but is that one of those like guild things where you have to have that on? Oh, no. I mean, if you really want to go there, thank our Spanish roots. It's Mark Anthony Jimenez is all. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:00] And if you want to go where my Spanish roots, my name is Joaquin Joseph Chalabascoro del Calcado. You're in. Open with that. De Calcado. Kino for short. Dang, man. Again, another reason I don't like my name. I got such a boring. Are you just Kevin Garcia? You know what? I didn't like my name. I have a middle name too. But the thing is, like, you can't get any whiter than Kevin. Garcia is the most common Spanish last name. What's your name?

[01:05:29] I was the same way. I didn't like my name. My brother is. My brother's name is Jimmy. And my sister is Jenny. So it's like, I got Joaquin because of my grandfather. Okay, I get it. But Kino is short from it. And I'm like. And then when our middle name is Joe. So my sister is Jenny Joe, which sounds like a person from the South. Or Jimmy Joe, James Joe. And then you got Joaquin Joseph. Like, where did we drop this one from? You see, that's what I am in my family.

[01:05:58] I'm the odd one out. I'm the one who can't translate the name. Elie Maria, how can we find you online? With a magnifying glass. No, I'm just kidding. I spice illustrations on all social media. Yeah. And I'm Kevin Garcia. Look, as much as I hate the name, I have owned it now. So I own KevinGarcia.com. I've owned it for a while. Oh, wow. I don't know. Dot com is actually part of your name now. All the other. Exactly. All the other Kevin Garcia's can suck it. All right. I have KevinGarcia.com. I've had it since the 90s. And on socials, I'm mostly KevinGarcia underscore com because I was told I couldn't use a dot.

[01:06:28] Although I've seen dots in online names now. So maybe I can change it. But of course, you are listening to My Primo's Podcast, which you can listen to at all the normal podcast places. Which would be weird if you got to this point in the podcast and didn't know how to find us. But hopefully. And of course, we can be found online through socials at My Primo's Podcast. Or at My Primo's Productions. In the meantime, though, stay good. Remember, wherever you are, you're a primo. We're all family. And we're out. Adios.