S8 EP6: This is T.S. and he writes comics

[00:00:00] What's up, Primos, Primas, and Primas? Welcome to My Primos, My Primos, My Primo Podcast. Welcome to the My Primos Podcast. My name is Freddy. My name is Kevin Garcia. My name is Elia Maria Matiz. My name is John Abina. This is Chikumi. Whenever I can make it. My Primos Podcast discusses all things fandom and pop culture. From comic books, movies, to whatever obsession we have this week. But with a Latine, Latine, Latine perspective. Remember, we're all Primos. We're all Primas. Primas. Primos. No matter what the world is.

[00:00:30] Part of the world we're from. Que onda, Primos, Primas y Primas? Welcome to My Primos Podcast. I am your host for the evening, Kevin Garcia, along with my co-host, John Avenia of Avenia Comics. John, how are you doing today? Good. How's it going? I don't honestly know sometimes. Don't honestly know.

[00:00:55] We are here, minus our fearless leader, Freddy, because somebody convinced him to go to Chicago for some reason. I don't know who that would be. Mr. I make comics in Chicago. Yes. But, yeah, it's what's C2E2 happening pretty much as we're going to be recording. So by the time this airs, C2E2 will have happened. John, what was C2E2 like? Oh, man, I am so tired. But I made so much money, I'm Scrooge McDuck in it.

[00:01:25] Excellent. That's the way it should be. And the other voice with us is T.S. Luther, another indie great who I have been following on TikTok for a while since I've been on TikTok. T.S., say hello. Hello. My name's T.S., and I write comics. I'm legally obligated to say it. There you go. Honestly, I was going to try to build into it and be like, and what do you do? What does he do? What is your name and what do you do? Could you help us out with that? I should make people have to lead me into it like it's a game where I was like, where's Waldo? How do we get T.S. to say the thing?

[00:01:53] It's just like when everybody says, I hope the editor put the Invincible in there for, you know, as long as it doesn't break too much copyright. We have an amazing editor, by the way. I've just been loving his work now that he's old enough to edit. So, T.S., we brought you on here partially, you know, because you make comics and you had a successful Kickstarter that just finished.

[00:02:20] I'm just looking at it right now. Well over your goal, but also because you're just a cool dude. And honestly, you know, I started following you because you are a somebody who makes indie comics. I always love the indie comics community. We meet a lot of good people that way, but also because your videos have been very positive and instructing and uplifting, I guess, when it comes to, you know, encouraging people to create. So I like that stuff. Thanks, man. I try to keep it positive.

[00:02:49] There's a lot of people who could get on there and they could cry more often and say a lot of mean things. But with a beard like mine, I just don't have that privilege to do it. People are going to think I'm going a different way with it. So I try to keep it positive, give what feedback I can and try to help. I get a lot of messages from the community like, hey, how do I do this? And I'm like, listen, I don't know what maybe I can talk you through what little I do know. And that seems to really resonate with the, you know, 2000 some people that do follow me.

[00:03:17] I'm not never going to be an influencer because I can't dance well enough and I'm not pretty enough under the beard to get those big numbers. But I have a really, really cool community of people like you guys who will come and chat with me live or we can talk comic book stuff and I can give what few tips I have. The one thing that people still ask me is, can I publish your comic books? And the answer is no. I love all of you, but I can barely publish my comic books. I don't know how to explain to you. That's not how it works.

[00:03:42] And I'm so sorry. And I see I watch their hearts break every time they message me like, how does this work? Do I send you my my idea now? Do you write me a check later? And I'm like, I that's not how it goes. But thank you so much for everything else. You know, you know, I like to say that I just had we were at BIPOC pop. Most of the by primus podcast right by all except for some. We had to move to Texas. Well, honestly, we're all we're all thinking about the state.

[00:04:11] So we inhaled. There was a tornado and it was also 70 at the beginning of the week. So so we had snow once it didn't go well. I heard one of your senators flew to Cancun, right? Yes. Well, you know, it's great. You know how bad it was is it was four years ago now. And NPR for the past four years has had a limited run a podcast series specifically about that snowstorm. And like, I think they thought it was gonna be like five episodes.

[00:04:40] And we're now four years later and there's still new episodes about the stuff they find out about that. That's because we're just Texas. Yeah, I mean, I was always Midwest. Yeah, I was like, I know we talked a little bit about it. I was just like, I am like hardened. I was like, what's the weather? I'm still doing shorts. It was 25 degrees this morning. I had to scrape ice off my windshield this afternoon. It was 70. I'm wearing shorts right now. Yeah. And I'm like, that's just how it goes. That's what happens when you live in the Midwest.

[00:05:07] But we have no earthquakes, summies, forest fires. We just get snow sometimes and I can deal with it. See, the thing about Texas is that we, I used to live on the coast and we get hurricanes, right? And I asked, I used to be a reporter and I interviewed this woman once about, you know, are do you go over hurricanes to rather than somewhere else? She goes, well, with the tornado, there's no warning, but hurricanes, we get a few days at least. And I'm like, that's a good point. And the thing is, is we get other things in Texas.

[00:05:32] We get earthquakes, we get fires, massive fires, we get snowstorms, but they're all so rare that nobody in Texas knows how to deal with them. So that's the issue. Like, like for example, there's, there's a big fire right now near Austin and everybody's like, do we evacuate? And we're like, I had one like 10 years ago. Don't we know what to do from last time? No, we don't know what to do from last time because that's what it's like in Texas. Um, yeah. So, yeah. I visited Michigan once.

[00:06:01] Uh, what's the part of the top called? The, uh, upper peninsula, upper peninsula. I wasn't part of that for a little bit. The Uppers. Uh, like that's an interesting area. Cause there's like one highway and that's it. Uh, you know, you can be in the woods or you can get poonskis. And those are the two things you can do in the upper peninsula. You can also hunt, I guess, while you're there. Um, or get run down by wolves so that there's a few more things on the list right now. Hey, bears. Uh, there are bears, but you're going to be more worried about the wolves because the bears have enough other stuff to do.

[00:06:31] The wolves have a problem with you specifically. And, uh, so, and like, I wish that was an exaggeration. I was camping with my family last summer and a park ranger rolls up and he's like, Hey, what are you guys doing? Like, well, we booked the campsite. He's like, nah, it's a wolf watch. I'm like, what do you mean? Wolf watch? What do you mean to aim for? There's that many wolves that we have a watch. And he's like, yeah, no, you can't be here. Like, we got the wolves, man. You gotta get out of here. We had to reschedule because there was a wolf problem. Jeez. I mean, that does sound pretty cool. Would you say it? That's rad, but-

[00:06:58] As terrifying as it is, you're just like, goddamn wolves. Like- Well, it was something I- I never thought I had to worry about something like that as a kid, but we have wolves and wild boar is the other thing in the problem in the woods in Michigan. Like- That's pretty much midwest and up. Yeah. I've been afraid of wild boars ever since I watched the miniseries Thorn Birds. Are you guys familiar with that? It killed one of the brothers. Yeah.

[00:07:25] It kills two brothers and it's like, I've been terrified ever since. Honestly, you're correct in being afraid though. A boar will mess you up and- A boar will gore you. Exactly. It will gore you. Like there's a whole name for how they do it. And then afterwards they bore you. Don't Google that. Don't Google it.

[00:08:11] Please. You're interrogated by the governor of Texas. No, I was told you may not ask about blank, blank, blank, or blank. And I'm like, those are all the things. You know what? Fine. So I literally go to him and I say, so what do you think of the weather? Cool. Get it? I was like, so that was my interview. No, but what I was going to say is I used to teach kids about animal safety and I have done some really stupid things around wild animals in my own life. And it's like, I know better. I literally know better.

[00:08:37] I taught people like one time I'm out in the middle of a wild reserve in Texas. And the person with me goes, is that a dog? We're there. That's no dog. And I'm like, it was a full on cougar. So what I did is I grabbed my camera and I ran towards it and it looks at me like, who the hell is this guy? And it just takes off. Thankfully. But yeah, I've, um, I bet that guy. So there's a little forest preserve on the side of my house, right by like this kid's park. And I've lived in the same house since I was like 16.

[00:09:04] So I used to cut a hole in the fence and that's where we would go drink. And now that I'm like an adult and worried about safety, other teens have done it. And now there's like coyote and deer and stuff. Like as I'm backing out of my, cause I leave my house at like four in the morning for work. And as I'm backing out, I have to like really check behind me. So I don't need a deer or some animal that's just hanging out in my driveway. And now I'm just like, God damn teens. How far are you going? Have you thought about patching up the hole where you're like, Oh no, I'm that guy.

[00:09:34] I did it. And then there's this really cool, like majestic steam where I'm there and I'm like wrapping up this wire and I don't know how to do it. So I'm watching a YouTube video. Cause like I didn't have a dad growing up. So I'm figuring this out. I look over my like, like shoulder up on like a little ridge, like with the light perfectly behind him. I was like, Oh, this is beautiful. Don't get in my driveway. Like, you know, given you're talking about your activities as a teenager, I'm thinking note for future John, hide this episode from your kid when he becomes a teenager. He won't get away with anything.

[00:10:03] Cause I know. Cause you've done all of them. I've done all the things. Every, every generation says that every generation says that. He's going to be running around with the cyborgs. I was going to say, it's going to come. I know, right. I was going to say, it's going to come back around the other way. They're gonna start doing things that kids in the 1920s used to do. And we're like, Oh, we weren't prepared for this one. What are they going to start bootlegging hooch? Like what do you mean? Like what are they going to be doing? Ticking the can, rolling that hoop down the street. It's going to be, you know. I, I, I do want to say, well, now for sure is like, if I ever see him like vaping, I'm just going to take it away and like, give them like a real cigarette and just be

[00:10:33] like, it's not cool. Like if you're going to, if you're going to harm yourself, like, let's just look cool doing it. Let's just like together once and then never again. Cause you're my baby. Oh my goodness. All right. Moving along. Great parenting advice. Thank you for this. Well, speaking of advice, we're talking a minute ago about how you said people would come to you for advice. And I had somebody come to me recently. Um, and it's always good to talk to somebody, especially when they're able to hear it.

[00:11:00] Cause sometimes the advice they want to hear is make me famous. Uh, or how do I get Marvel to pay me a money for my idea? Um, in fact, Oh, I don't remember what it was. There was a movie you were watching the day. Um, where, Oh, you know what it was? Um, it might've been college girls that, that, that, uh, sex lives of college girls, TV show. Um, but one of the characters, a mother was like, well, my child sold a character to Marvel and now has a ton of money. And I'm like, is that how that works? Like I worked there.

[00:11:27] I don't, but anyway, the point is people want that stuff, but when they are willing to not get the instant, when, what do you tell people? What do you mean? Like me, John, like I, I take a book on a, uh, a page on John's thing all the time because like if they're ready to actually hear the real thing, it's Hey, you tell them just do the thing, go make the book, like go put the work in that advice. Like so good. It, but like, that's the, that's how you do it. And they don't ever want to hear it though. That's never the thing. They're never okay with hearing that.

[00:11:56] And so what I do is I'm honest and I show them how far I've come in the four or five years that I've been doing this and show them how little I've actually accomplished in that way of doing that, making money, working for Marvel and DC. I haven't done any of those things and I'm considered good at this. So like if I am doing the thing and you're not doing any of it, you're coming to ask me for advice. It's like, well then you really need to get to work. So like the least that you can do is start making books, like start putting them out, start self-publishing them. I can't find a partner.

[00:12:25] I can't find a collaborator. I can't afford to pay an artist. It doesn't matter. Deal with it. Do the thing. Start like asking people. You're going to get a million nose. Deal with it. Learn to get the thick skin of people laughing at you. No, I don't want to draw your thing. No, I'm not going to do it for that price. All of those just keep at it. And eventually someone will say yes or you'll learn how to draw or any of those things and you can put out a book and it's going to suck. No one's going to read it. People are going to laugh at you, but more than likely no one's going to read it and that's okay. You deal with that. You put out another one. No one reads that one and eventually someone will read it.

[00:12:55] And then eventually someone will say this is bad. And then eventually someone will say this wasn't too bad. Like this was okay. And then you work your way up from there. That's the only thing I can actually give them as real advice. They just hate hearing that. I love this. And since you said take a page from John's book, John, what is the advice that comes from that book? Grab that book real quick. It is literally. So I taught a class yesterday and I was starting to have real second guesses as I was doing

[00:13:25] it because I always feel like TS is like Waluigi or like Wario. Wow. It's like he's very positive and like I love his videos because like they make me believe that I like I'm doing it. Like, yeah, he's right. Cause like you're so positive. And every time I try to make that same, like, Hey guys, I had a really good day in comics. Like, let's talk about it by the end of it. I'm like, you're a sham of a person.

[00:13:51] But, um, but my advice to everyone is you have to start making it. Like, there's no reason why if I could write it and start making it. So can you, uh, at the end of my class, there was like this Q and a, and one guy was like, I am so busy. I have a full-time job. I have a wife and a kid. I don't have time. And then the person that was moderating knows a little bit about me. So she was like, John hit them with your schedule. I was like, great. I was just like, I'm a, I'm a dad. I'm a husband. Right? Like that's together.

[00:14:20] I was like, I work at a tortilla in the morning, tortilla factory in the morning. I work at a funeral, which is why I was late today. I'm so sorry guys. Um, so I did that. I was just like, I write comics. I go to conventions. So I'm prepping for like three shows in the next two weeks. I was like, and this is a full-time job. So like I have, oh, and I'm a wedding photographer. So I was like, if I can balance that and editing and writing and making comics, I was like, so can you.

[00:14:45] But if you don't want to start and don't start because it only gets harder as you go because writing it and making it is one part of the challenge, but getting readers is almost impossible. Oh yeah. Because the first thing they're going to ask you is what is this similar to? And why should I give you my money instead of that thing you just said? And you have to just be passionate.

[00:15:10] And if you don't love your work enough to be your champion for it, then no one's going to care. So you like, that's what it comes down to. It's you got to want to do it. You have to do it. And then you have to love what you did. Otherwise, this is just going to be a money pit. I think it's a money pit either way. Yeah. What if it becomes worth it? No, no, it becomes worth it. It's like this. Everything that I do in that, in that field, I'm doing for the love of it. I'm not, you know, like for help, uh, tick tock.

[00:15:39] I think the most I make off of that is like five, $600. Uh, you know, if I'm lucky in a month. Um, and that was only because of, that was only because of Robert Downey Jr. Just to be clear. He, he, he paid my, my first car bill. So that worked out. Um, that's awesome. But the thing is, is that I'm going to do a jump to that, that question that everybody has, which is how do I get to Marvel? And that question, that answer is basically like Marvel DC image, all those guys make something somewhere else first.

[00:16:06] Like, you know, whether it's a comic book or you wrote a novel or you were a speaker on a show, you know, um, they, there used to be like 30 years ago, you could just blindly submit things and they'd have somebody going through it. But a, too many people do that. B that became kind of a legal liability as some became an issue. Uh, and then, uh, see, it's just easier for them to know that you are a quantity before they, they contact you. So make something somewhere else. Yeah.

[00:16:33] Like the, I made the big mistake when I, cause I'm a dummy and I quit my day job. I didn't have two jobs anymore. I had a really good cushy job and I said, you know what? I'm going to go make comic books. Don't do that kids. Um, it doesn't work out well. Um, especially not for like the wall. It's sometimes it works well out for other things. Like you're really fulfilled cause you made this beautiful piece of art, but now you're living in the van. Um, so don't quit your day job. Nice fan. No, definitely not. It's a terrible fan. Um, it's a Dodge caravan from 1984 and, uh, it goes maybe 30 miles.

[00:17:01] I always said it got me from point a to like pushing distance of point B. And, uh, anyway, so like I quit my job to do this and I sent out all these pitch packets. I spent my life savings making five to seven page pitch packets with some amazing artists, some artists that were working at Marvel, some artists that were working at DC after shot comics, some amazing dudes. And, uh, then I would send it to the editors that they knew cause they, they kind of had an in right. And I started to get feedback eventually. And it was really good feedback.

[00:17:31] I was like, Hey, we like this. We don't like that work on this. No. Yeses, not even close to a, we will publish. That's still that. Those are great responses to amazing responses. But I learned very quickly that it didn't matter how good of a thing I wrote. And like, I had some stuff that they really liked and were like, come back to us with this when you self published like five or six books. I'm like, Oh no, but I just spent all of my money. Making these pitch packets for these places. They're like, it doesn't matter. You could have written Watchmen. We don't give a shit. We don't know who you are.

[00:17:57] No, one's going to buy your book and we can't spend them when we can hire Kelly Sue to Connick when we can hire Matt fraction because they need to work. So they're working for every single publisher, not just image, not just Marvel, any of these publishers when we can hire them. No offense. Why would we ever hire you? You have nothing. Uh, and I'm like, honestly, I was, I love that they were that honest with me. And I got like really good advice from that because I, when I got those messages back I said, okay, what should I be doing?

[00:18:24] And they told me, they said, go crowdfund something, go talk to Zoop, go talk to Kickstarter, go talk to Indiegogo, go self publish some books, make a name for yourself in the indie space, and then come back to us. And that's been my journey. And that's worked so far. I get to work with small publishers now because I listened to the advice of the editors at big places and they weren't jerks. They were honest. They're like, we're not going to take it. It doesn't matter how good you are at writing this stuff. No one cares who you are yet. And I, I, people hate hearing that. They think that they want to think that there's a chance where they can win that lottery and get hired at image.

[00:18:54] And maybe they can, maybe they're a better writer than me. Um, I feel like the bark sometimes is on the floor, but, uh, it doesn't matter as far as I've seen until you've proven that you're willing to put your blood, sweat and tears into it first. And it's not your work and stuff. Cause I've read your work. Your work is incredible. I love it. I love the glitter. I am excited for when that finally gets its moment. I'm so excited for that one, but a lot of stuff with Marvel and DC right now is you're

[00:19:22] noticing a lot of people that used to be editors now entering the writing space. So it is a lot of, that's what it was in the eighties too. I mean, it's been that way for, for a long time. Yeah. And it's going to cycle through. So you got to kind of find someone who's coattails. You can kind of like, Hey, let's be buddies. I'm going to be with you. Right. Yeah. And then get an editor to talk to is the hardest thing in the world. Cause they're gazelles, man. Like they're afraid they can smell you coming. Yeah. They know.

[00:19:52] They know they see me walking up to a table. They're like, he's got no money. He's got questions and hopes. Yeah. He's going to hand me a book. He's not going to buy one from my table. This is what's happening. That a hundred percent. There's so kind about it, but they're like, I see them glaze over. I'm like, Oh, you you're upset to see me. I get it. I'm going to buy. Yeah. He has the Tony Stark goatee, but does he have the Tony Stark money? That's because I can't grow a beard. If I could have PS's beard, I would just be homeless for a little while. And it just happens.

[00:20:19] Like when you're on house, the beer poppers. Meanwhile, I've been trimming mine down. Mine needs to be much, much shaggier. And I've been trying to like, I will, I, I've, you know, but some of you guys saw the video of me, you know, not with a beard, not doing that again. Uh, but, uh, you know, I'll, I'll trim it down. I'll keep it a little bit more reasonable. I feel like if you ever did like straight mustache, you would just have like, like just straight dad face of just like, Hey John, don't do that. And I'd be like, all right, he's right. And I would ask for all the bacon. A hundred percent.

[00:20:49] And I would ask for all the bacon. Cause we need it. You wouldn't get it. Cause I'd be like, Oh, there's one piece of pizza left. I got a ship at the Texas. Like there's seriously a video of me or two videos actually of me without the beard. I did over the winter break this past, a few months ago. And, um, it's pretty ridiculous. See me without the beard. It's just, uh, yeah. Um, listen, we talked about, uh, one of your books for split split second. And we talked about, you know, Kickstarter and crowdfunding.

[00:21:16] I want to go in depth on your work, but first I want to take a music break. Let's hear some songs.

[00:22:28] That was awesome. Like, I'm glad we took the break. So happy. Uh, but we were talking about your books. Yes. And, um, I'm excited to get into it. Cause I haven't told you a million times. I really liked Hellion Abash. I really liked Tokyo fire. Like I, I love what you put out. Uh, but you sent me a book a while back, uh, the digger and I don't, I'm really bad at emailing back. Like we talked about discord and just like, we missed notifications. I actually had written you a thing on discord about the digger.

[00:22:57] And like, I had a chance to really like dig through it, but I did it and I liked it a lot. And I know you talk a lot about like your writing process and stuff, but like, uh, that book, are you planning like a series for it or are you like, what's your plans for the digger itself? So I wrote it originally, um, out of desperation. I messaged my buddy, Sam, an amazing artist out of Russia. He does tons of indie books over there. And I don't know if you know about this. It's rough over there.

[00:23:25] And so he's been trying to get into Western comics. We're starting to learn more about that here. So we're learning. And so like, he hit me up and he liked the cut of my jib and I was like, let's work on something together. And what I like to do is I took a page out of Kirkman's book and I always message message the artist. What do you want to draw? I'll come up with a pitch for you. You know, I can write whatever. And, uh, he gave me some ideas. I sent him back 25 ish pitches and he said they all sucked. He didn't want any of them.

[00:23:54] He liked them. He just didn't want to draw any of that stuff. And I was like, okay, I don't want to do that again. What do you want to draw? And he hit up Mesoamerica. Like he's got some family there and he's been really passionate about learning more about it. And he's like, that's where my passion lies. What can you do? I sent him back three really specific pitches. And one of those was what if Indiana Jones hunt short round. And, uh, that was where like the digger came from. He, uh, I sent him the script. Normally when I send an artist a script, we're going to pitch it to publishers. They're going to do five to seven pages.

[00:24:23] The next day I got thumbnails for the whole book. Um, including like three different covers, all this research he had done, um, on the area, the time period that we set it in, uh, with 1930s, very cruise, Mexico. And, uh, he just fell in love with it. And so then, uh, like a week later, he did the rest of the book. We colored it. And, uh, then I just kind of sat there. I didn't know what to do with it. Um, I was getting ready to pitch publishers, but I was working on a bunch of books for Kickstarter at the time.

[00:24:50] And, uh, I, we conceived it as four issues. Cause we knew that we're new. If someone does say yes, they're not going to give us an ongoing series. Yeah. We don't think we have an ongoing series for this. We could probably squeeze four issues out of a small publisher. Uh, he got some other work. We kind of let it sit. And then I had sent it to people like John. I had sent it to, I think I said it to you actually at one point in a few other people like mutuals on Tik TOK. And I made a video about it and people that people say a lot of nice things about my books. That one unanimously came back.

[00:25:20] Hey, you should publish this. A publisher would like this. They would say yes to this. I I'm in that world alive. He says John as well, but, but like, I do a lot of stuff into Mesoamerican history and culture and also like the archeology of it, which I'm true looking at as well. And, um, you know, that, that, that's the first one of yours that I, that I read and yeah, it blew me away. It felt, it's kind of a weird statement. I've been doing a lot of talks lately, both on line and in person with people about how

[00:25:49] there was a lack of representation, uh, historically, you know, very, very, you could tell when somebody was not writing something from the culture, but I noticed with Digger, um, and also with Hellion and Bash, there's people of different cultures, uh, different races, uh, different backgrounds showing up and it all felt very natural. Um, at Digger, especially I, it didn't, I mean, John, Phil, Phil, Phil, Phil, to jump in here, but I felt like it, it, nothing about that felt disrespectful.

[00:26:17] It felt entirely like we're like being thrown into this world. And, and I loved it. Um, I, I really appreciate, um, that kind of, uh, acknowledgement. I mean, the, the argument is always, well, you know, if I'm not from a culture, can I not write that culture? And it's like, we can just do a good job. And this is good. Yeah. I've gotten stuff from people like me, like other Latinos. And I'm just like, do you hate me? Like, do you hate yourself?

[00:26:47] Like, what are we doing, man? And then I like, when I read something that's from someone else, like outside of it, who has like an appreciation for it, or just has like a curiosity about it. And it's good. Like the way the digger is, I'm always like, there we go. And I'm never worried about like, can I write about something? Because as long as you do it with care, as long as you're doing it out of a place of curiosity or respect or whatever, you can write about everything. You don't have to stick to just characters that look like you and just write about that.

[00:27:15] But I see, like, I think people are real nervous to maybe misstep. So they automatically go towards other people and say like, hey, if you're not that ethnicity, if you're not that, you shouldn't write it. But I think as long as you're doing it respectfully. So people are nervous to misstep. And then there's people who don't feel they should be nervous at all. And then they misstep because they're just, you know. My wife runs a book group. That's not a good transition, man. That's not a good, you don't know. I'm just saying people that do a bad job and you go, my wife, no.

[00:27:44] She's on a book group in Facebook that she moderates. Hmm. Okay. And every other week she's like selling books on eBay. I'm like, what happened? She's like, turns out this author, racist. Yeah. Yeah. And she was just like, I can't do it. And then like, and I'll look at the back of the book and it'll be like, oh, it's a mob romance where they kidnap the other mob. It's Romeo and Juliet, but it's like super creepy. And I'm just like, well, yeah, dude, like read the synopsis. But yeah, but see. She's like, well, it's popular online and they sent it to me. I'm like, I get that.

[00:28:11] But like in her defense, I get why, you know, a lot of those kinds of books are very popular. You know, you know that it's it, there's an audience for it, but there's also as she's discovered and as we have as well, you'd be surprised where you will find issues. Yeah. Like the bigotry and the fascism, it comes fast and loose, especially from people that look like me. And like, that was like a big thing. Like I was aware of it when, when Sam said Sam Goodlin, the co-creator of the digger,

[00:28:40] when he said Mesoamerica, I'm like, okay. That means I need to put on my big boy glasses, my big boy pants, and I need to do the research. I need to do the work. So I talked to people from there. I have a lot of friends in South America. So it was like, okay, put me in touch with museums. Like, how do I do the research to make sure I'm doing this right? So I'm not being offensive. And also my main idea going into this was like, I shouldn't be telling a story about this area if I don't have something to say about people that look like me with this.

[00:29:08] And we were, I say we, like I was there, but like people who look like me, right. I was part of it. People like Indiana Jones, white academia were the problem. We took things from other cultures, put them in white museums and said, it belongs there. They were thieves and grave robbers. I love Indiana Jones. One of my favorite movies growing up. Like, it's not like saying, oh, you're a bad person for liking that. But if you look at it through any sort of realistic lens, we were the problem. So that was where I wanted to go at it from. I was like, it's okay for me to tell this story.

[00:29:37] If we talk about who the bad guy really was. And also what if Indiana Jones hunt short round is very fun to say. So like there's, there's that in, but like, if you look at that and you twist it through that realistic lens, okay. Someone like Indiana Jones is the problem. And we can do our research and be respectful of the culture and the area and tell an interesting story. I do worry about being offensive. And that is why I look into cultural consultants. That's why I do the research because the bare minimum, if I'm going to tell a story that

[00:30:06] isn't necessarily mine to tell, the least I can do is do the research. And the second thing that you can do is a little bit higher on that than try is be okay with being a little uncomfortable. We deserve that to a certain extent with the privilege that I get in society. I can be a little uncomfortable and go, maybe I shouldn't be saying this. Maybe I shouldn't be telling this story. Like I shouldn't back away from it. I should do the work and reach out to people like sending scripts to you guys and going, Hey, what do you think of this? Is this awful? Is this offensive?

[00:30:35] Like, it's not, it's not that hard to do the work. I think some people are just lazy about it and don't want to be told, Hey, this is offensive. So they're scared, you know, it's not just lazy. It's also like wanting to be exploitative for like, you know, wanting to make things exotic or whatever it is. And it's just, yeah, yeah, it is. It is exactly what that is. And I don't want to come off like that. And I never wanted to exploit someone else's story or something else. Cause that's the whole point of the character, right? Like that is what the titular digger does.

[00:31:05] He steals these things from other cultures and puts them in a museum for white people to go and look at. So like, I wanted to approach it from that lens and show that that's not what it's like. It wasn't this exotic place. People lived here. There was culture here. You know, this isn't a backwoods place. This is a place where he might not know about things, but other people do. And this is, he didn't discover these things like in Indiana Jones, right? It's like, this is the temple that no one's ever been to. It's like, well, people lived right over there. I feel like someone would have heard about this.

[00:31:34] And somebody built that temple. Exactly. Right. Yeah. But yeah, exactly that. And then it's like, I think I still watched the latest Indiana Jones movie, which is I feel like I should, but at the same time, it's weird how a lot of this doesn't age well and not, not for the more obvious reasons. You know, I felt like the new Indiana Jones tries to do a little bit of that where they're like apologizing for the past. And I was like, for like the first time he'd said it cool, like, but it is a fun movie.

[00:32:03] I will watch Indiana Jones forever. Like if they came out with one tomorrow, I'm like there at the theater for it. Honestly, the main reason I didn't jump up and go watch it is because I found out Harrison Ford wasn't going to lose an eye. And, and you know what I've said? I've watched every episode of young Indiana Jones Chronicles, and it showed that elderly Indiana Jones had an eye patch. I wanted to know how that happened. And yet it's yet to happen. Like Harrison's almost that age and we haven't lost an eye yet. And I'm like, ah, so I'm like, you know what? No, it's not worth my time.

[00:32:33] There's still time. He's only almost 90. It's fine. He'll be flying planes and make exactly the Hulk. He can do it. Um, but, but yeah, I mentioned a minute ago, um, Hellion and Bash. Uh, I, like I said, I, I really liked that first issue. I like, um, I was enjoying, you know, the, the lovable rogue and everything, but then there's that last page, just the narration tells you where the story is going. And I like that. It's, it's, um, it's what I was saying, uh, before when I wanted to do the world's war comics

[00:33:00] book that I did, I, I, it's one I've had in my head for like 10 years, but it's a superhero book. And I'm like, it's hard to sell a superhero book in indie circles. Um, and I, I like your superhero book. Thank you. I like that. And it's not necessarily about the superhero team, but it's about the, the, the story. Um, how did that one feel about? I mean, there's a lot of different ends for it. Uh, one of the big like comic book inspirations, earlier than invincible. I love invincible was Michael Avon.

[00:33:26] Oh means, uh, the victories, which was, it didn't sell nearly what it deserves. I love that book, but it is a superhero story that has a world. There's history, there's superhero teams. It's got all that stuff, but it's not about that. The first book especially is about one of these superheroes who was abused as a child and no one cared. He's a superhero. He's got a tragic backstory. That's what it is. It's tragic backstory. It's fodder for him to become Spider-Man. And it's him having to deal with that as an adult, the PTSD, the trauma and the victim

[00:33:56] hood of it all. And that showed me what a superhero story could be. It's like giving somebody, uh, you know, feeding them their vegetables, but giving it to them in their bowl of ice cream where it's like, Hey, we're going to cover some serious subject matter. And it's not dark and gritty about people get beat up and, and we cut the Joker's head off and Robin has a spear. It's not about that. It's about heavy. What if Batman killed? Exactly. No one's ever done that story before. Like, and it's like, it showed that you could be mature without being grotesque.

[00:34:23] And I wanted to do that with Hullion and Bash and, you know, not to get too personal, but like I have stuff in my childhood and I have a lot of friends who did as well. And I've seen how the system can fail kids and not just because the system is bad, but because the people in it are complacent and complicit in that type of abuse because standing up to the powers that be is scary. So if Batman is the power that be, it's like, well, I can stand up to Batman, but he's going to beat me because he's Batman. Right? I mean, he's a billionaire and a master fighter and has all everybody on his side.

[00:34:53] So say, but say you're Superman, right? You could be Batman, but what if you're afraid that you're not going to be able to take on dark side without Batman? So even if you know that he's a bad guy, it's like, yeah, but so it's one kid or the world and it's, you know, the needs of the many type thing. And so you have these other heroes that make this really terrible judgment call in my opinion as a dad and as someone who cares about kids. It's like, okay, you're still letting, you're letting this kid be the fodder. And when you look at Batman and Robin, who I love, and I would never tell the story

[00:35:21] with actual Batman and Robin, but when you have this kid who's going to deal with this type of thing, I've seen that story not told. Like you have like young justice or many other stories where you have a character go, Hey, should we be doing that with Robin? And Batman goes, yes. And that's it. That's the end of the story. Like no one ever actually steps up and changes anything. And I wanted to tell a story where that happened. And I read those stories and I started writing comics and I had a superhero world like everybody else did when they were 10 years old. And I thought this would be the time to do it.

[00:35:50] Um, I was a little bit wrong because people want the voice and it's not. Yeah. Yeah. And I get those messages. It's like with mine. Everybody's like, is it Watchmen? Is it Watchmen? I'm like, it's not. It's not Watchmen. Not Watchmen, but no. There you go. The class I did yesterday or the class I did the other day where I was teaching, uh, they're asking me questions. And someone's like, how do I write the boys? How do I tell a story that can be grotesque or whatever? And I was like, first of all, the boys comic is terrible. Yeah. I was like, it's a Gen X fever dream.

[00:36:18] It's just, it's like the, the, the premise was already basically done with Brat Pack back in the eighties and it was messy then, but it told a new story. Now you're not telling a new story. And that's what I told them. I was like, I'd rather you work harder to give me a story about characters that I love that have to deal with like a terrible world. And that's why they're either soft and like, give me a Ted Lasso in a world that hates him. Yeah. Like, give me something like that where I can cheer for him instead of giving me another run of like, everything is terrible.

[00:36:46] Everything's always going to be terrible because we're all terrible people. It's like, not necessarily, dude. Like, and that's the story about yourself. Yeah. It's violence and grotesquerie for the sake of it. And yeah, you know, sometimes it has some interesting things to say in the show. The concept is good. Yeah. Yeah. A thousand percent. Well, it's like pretty much everything Mark Millar has ever done. The concept is okay. The books are horrible. Um, but, uh, fun Mark Millar story. So I'm in college. Right.

[00:37:16] And I'm like excited. I didn't know about invincible. So I was like, I have this idea. It's like a realistic superhero show. I was like, uh, it's a web series that I wrote. It was called, uh, superior. So I was like, it's a fun story about a guy that discovers he has powers and he's a dupus, but he's going to try to save the world. It's invincible. Like it's, it's so close in like theme, but, um, Mark Millar came out with a comic called in, um, like, Oh no, it's called superior.

[00:37:43] My show, it came out and it was called superior at the exact same time. So like I was trying to do a Kickstarter for a web series at the same time that comic came out and everything was just like, do you know, Mark Millar is? I was like, when I was a teenager, I made my first original character and he was going to be called wild cat. And then like, and I didn't know about the 1940 CC character at the time. Right. But like, like a year later, Jim Lee comes out with wild cats and I'm like, okay, he's Jim Lee. Maybe it won't last. Okay.

[00:38:12] And sure enough. I mean, it's not still around, but I mean, he's still Jim Lee. And it's like, you're not going to, you know, they still pop up from time to time. Like you'll catch them in some random DC background stuff. Talked about, uh, Rob Liefeld's leaving to go kickstart. Uh, what's his hero? Youngbloods. Youngblood. He's doing an independent run of Youngbloods away from image and everybody. It's just his. And I was just like, good luck. Yes, sir.

[00:38:38] So, um, you know, but what it all comes down to what we're all saying is this, which is, you know, I said earlier, like you got to make your own stuff and you're saying, just, just make it. If your story is just, I thought up a really cool superpower. That's great, but that's not going to really do well in the indie world. You need to have a story. So when I told people I was doing a superhero book, everybody was like, Oh, what are their powers? Who would win the fight? Why are they stronger than, you know? And I'm like, it's not about that. You know, like, like in fact, that's why I purposely made all of my characters super generic.

[00:39:07] So like, look, you could tell us the flash until that's the whole same. We're going to move on. Like, it's not about what they can do. And, um, and some indie guys too, they'll knock that and be like, well, you're just doing Batman, but he's evil. I'm like, well, kinda. Yeah. That's the end to the story. I did it on purpose because people know who the flash is. People know who Superman is. Exactly. You make a character that looks like that. They don't have to go. I wonder what this guy's about. I don't get 15 messages asking what this guy's backstory is. Cause you see a guy in a cape with a cow on standing on a roof. You go, ah, that's Batman.

[00:39:36] I get, I understand that. Yeah. And the thing about that is, is that it's, it doesn't have to just be always Batman and Seville cause that's been done a thousand times. It's how you're doing it from whose point of view you're doing it. Everything about that. Which is why I really liked that book. Like when it came out and I got it, I like read through it and I was like, ah, and then I kind of came back. I hardly read things twice unless it's like a trade. I came back to it and I was just like, ah, and then I thought like a couple of days later.

[00:40:04] Cause your Kickstarters were pretty close together. Yeah. As far as like Kickstarters I saw. So when I saw it come back in, I was like, yes. And then I was in the car and you were doing a live and you're like, oh, my Kickstarter is coming out. I was like, I missed it. And when I jumped on it, I even messaged you like right after I did it. Listen, I know, I know I've got a TS Luther here in John Avenia, but my Kickstarters are pretty close together too. I mean, I've had one every four years. I do one every four years too. Cause like, yeah, but you have other, but my point is I need a public.

[00:40:34] I need somebody to help. I can't be in charge of myself. Like you guys can't, I can, I can write. I can, you could give me, I've done, I could jump, but I can't be in charge of myself. That's where I need some advice. You know? Well, we can always give you the advice, but man, that's the hardest part. That's the thing that I tell people all the time when they're like, how do I do a successful Kickstarter? I'm like, I don't know. That's the part I'm bad at. I can write scripts all day. I'm going to do, I'm going to get Elliot to commission a piece and it's going to be like TS is the angel on one of your shoulders.

[00:41:01] And then me as like the little devil on the other side. And Tess is like, you can do it. Like you just got to work on it. And then the other side, why haven't you done it yet? Yeah. Stop talking to the people on your shoulders and get to work. You know, like, you're going to be Freddie. You're like, what's talking about on the pod? And then you just got in his face so much. I love it so much. And I, I love making books that people go in and go, I know what this is. Batman's the bad guy. I get it.

[00:41:29] And I like the feedback I always get is actually, this is pretty good. Like they're so surprised for something about it. Like they'll see it. They're like, this is going to be like amateur trash. Honestly, the vibe that everyone gets when they pick it up and then they get through it. Like that was not bad. I don't know if it's like the low expectations or something, but people are usually genuinely surprised. I love the subtleness of the, of the dialogue that, that makes that. I mean, I say subtle. I mean, in the part that tells you where it's going, that part is subtle. And I like that. Thank you. You know, go ahead. Sorry.

[00:41:59] Superheroes are hard. Cause like I'm, I make conventions a lot and you see a lot of like Cape and Kyle stuff. And it is just like, this is my justice league and they're all bad guys. Or this is like a, like some kind of story. And it's just like, but it's the flash and people will go. I know. The latest thing I've seen is a lot of like Catholicism, but with superheroes at shows and that's kind of people's twist on it. But I've seen like three people table to table telling the same thing. And I'm just like that.

[00:42:28] I don't do a lot of superheroes for that reason. Besides superior. I never found my angle. Like even Lucha forever. We kind of talked about it the other day where it's like, yeah, he's a hero, but I see him punch a robot. And then he's just like, am I a bad dad? And that's like, but that's what makes it work. And like, you got to have an ending. You can't just be like, this is my cool power set. And I, and like, you do see that a ton and you got to have something else. And that's why I always tell people, I'm like, my books often are the vegetables thing,

[00:42:56] but like with ice cream with it, because I know you're not just going to read it on its own. And I think being an indie guy and being somewhat new sometimes to pop up on someone's feed is they don't necessarily have the belief that I can pull that off. So if they start to believe it, even just a little bit, they're extra impressed because they didn't expect much from it. And so I'm able to ride that wave. And originally, you know, the Batman being the bad guy was a big twist. It was going to happen later on. You're going to go. And like, uh, like, you know, invincible took like what eight issues before they finally

[00:43:26] told you what it was really about. Yeah. And then not even getting into the whole ultimate Spider-Man thing. So I was like, you know, exactly. I think it might've been even a little bit earlier than that. And originally he wasn't even going to do it till much later. And they said, listen, you need a hook. This is just a superhero book. And people don't care enough. I've had that discussion with other writers. I've been like, you have a good plan, but if you don't let the reader know, they're not going to come. And it's like, Oh, but it's going to be a surprise issue 10. I'm like, I understood. They got to get to get there. Yeah. And it's an indie book. People aren't going to support me. They're not going to go and buy. I'm not going to be able to get to the trade if I don't give them something.

[00:43:55] So I did it much earlier. And I also made it not a secret, right? Like very clearly Batman is the bad guy through it. The gargoyle is a bad dude. He gets worse and much more sinister as the series goes along. And it makes it very apparent that you just wait, hold on a second time out. A billionaire is a bad person. No, no, no, no. He's going to run for president the next issue to help us right now, guys. What don't I know?

[00:44:22] But like, you have to like show them that and, uh, and show them that it's more about the characters. And I made sure I did it from the sidekick's point of view, from the victim's point of view. Cause it's really alien story. That's why his name is first up. And, uh, being somebody who didn't have necessarily the most active dad in my life, it's a little bit of wish fulfillment, right? Where you have this lovable rogue dude, who is not a good guy. Like, especially when you see him in issue two, like he's just there to steal stuff.

[00:44:48] And even she is going, maybe I should help this kid while everybody else is sitting on the sidelines. And that's the point is like showing people that like, you can go do this. You can go help that kid. You know? Funny. As you're saying that I'm thinking about the lovable rogue and them analogues. I'm like, Oh, this could have been Catwoman. But I realized that would have been an entirely different story. It's a different story, but I do. And I get flack sometimes when people are like, well, so like you say Catwoman. Cause that's why I say bash is this world's Catwoman. You're like, but it's a dude. I'm like, yeah, that's okay.

[00:45:16] Like, I don't know what your, she doesn't have to be super hot and in leather. Like she can still be Catwoman, you know? I mean, he can still be hot and in leather. He is hot and in leather. That's the thing. And I, the other question I get a lot is like, well, isn't it going to be weird? You have this, this like dude running around with a kid. I'm like, that is literally Batman. It's already weird. They're already doing that. Yeah. It's, it's already happening. And, and, but the, the kind of critiques I get from fans. And I always say this is like the fans are correct with their critiques.

[00:45:44] They're never correct in how they want you to fix them. Like if they have something to say, sometimes it's a, it's okay. Cause it's a thing I'm going to answer in the book. But if they're talking about it, it's something I want to address, but they never have a good enough idea to replace mine. And it's something that I try to wrestle with. I'm like, I love that you have critiques and I'm going to approach that and think about it and dissect it. But you're, you don't practice writing. So the ideas that you come up with to fix it. And like, I don't know how to tell you, but that's not going to work. You know, I don't get those critiques. I get, I'm not going to read it. And I'm like, that's fine.

[00:46:15] It's like, thanks for letting me know. You know, thank you for letting me know. That's really cool. I got to read this. And there's some stupid game out called, uh, all-star brawlers. It's a mobile game. So I've never heard of it. The first two characters that came out, I kid you now we're an undead mariachi singer and a lucha wrestler. And every cat. If I post a lock job video is just like, is this vocal? And then if I post like the lucha character or like for, or like, well, yeah. That's the next comment. I was like, I love this.

[00:46:44] I'm not, I'm not feeling. And then I wanted to play the game on live and then talk about my books and how it's different. But I couldn't do that. I couldn't figure out the science. It's an end back here. Yeah. I thought you were exaggerating that you were on the other day and you didn't understand it. And I was like, okay, he's playing this up. Right. And then your wife was in my life today. And she's like, no, he really cannot work. I'm the oldest man here. And I don't know how to do any of those things. You whippersnappers. Oh, I still, I tried to do a line the other day.

[00:47:11] Cause somebody was like, Hey, let's go on and talk about it. Cause they saw me and you do it. So they thought it was like taking applications. I was like, no man, I like this book. Like I'm going to talk about it. I was like, I don't know you like that. And then I tried to do it. And then it was like, I somehow made it 48 like panels. How have you gotten more panels than what we have? I can't go back. I can't reduce it. So I was like, I'm just going to give up. Oh man, I'm sorry. I'm getting you like, again, people are going to think you're nicer because you were on with me.

[00:47:41] And I'm like, yeah, send me your pitches. Let's talk about it. You know, send me a DM. Here's my phone number. Um, but you know, you want this. They know, like, talk to TS. Cause he's going to be nice to you. If you talk to Johnny, he's going to be like, well, what are you doing to help yourself? I mean, eventually you do that angel and devil thing. Yeah. Eventually I get there. I don't like you fix it. Exactly. I don't humor them the entire time, but like, I'm always on like, you can message me the feedback. I'm going to give you often. Cause people always just want to send me an idea. Hey, I had this awesome idea for this character.

[00:48:11] And I go, cool. Thumbs up. And they're like, well, what should I do? I'm like, I don't know. It's in the execution, man. I'm like, I'm not going to write it for you. That's the other thing that always gets me is, um, people will say, I have an idea and I need your help. I'm writing it, but I don't want to tell you what it is because you might steal it. And, and the thing is, is like, look, I I'd rather you didn't tell me your idea if you're worried about it. But like, uh, it's always the execution. Like you use the example of invincible. We use example of, of the boys buddy.

[00:48:38] All of these things can be, um, pared down to being similar ideas. It's the execution. How do you do it? Um, you know, uh, it's like, um, so I mentioned earlier that, that studios get gun shy of getting, you know, blank, uh, uh, an application of submissions submissions. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. Blind submissions. Um, yeah. A big example is the reason, uh, the, the, the final straw reason anyway, that Alan Moore doesn't want his names on any movies that, that come out based on his work.

[00:49:05] Um, and what it came down to is a league of external gentlemen, which is not great. Um, but that's not what upset him. What upset him is that when the movie was being made and coming out, uh, this guy tried to sue the studio saying, Hey, I sent you this script back in the day. And you clearly just decided to make it without paying me. And he's like, no, it's based on his book. So then the lawsuit was changed to say, Oh, well, clearly you hired Alan Moore to make a fake comic book just so you didn't have to pay me because that makes so much sense.

[00:49:34] Um, and the thing is, it was just, the idea was what if you took public domain characters from the Victorian era and put them together and had them solve a crime. It's like, that's not that original, but how you do it, it's what you do with it. That makes the difference. Um, you know, you could, you could do your own Superman movie, your own, uh, story, your own Batman story, do something with it. That makes it your story. You still have to be a good writer. You can have an awesome idea. It means nothing to have an awesome. So many of my books are terrible ideas. What if Batman was a bad guy and beaten up Robin? Okay. I'm going to agree with you.

[00:50:04] That is a terrible idea. Terrible. But, but having read it, like literally just a couple hours ago, uh, it is actually really good. Thank you. It's in the execution. And I'm not blowing smoke then. I mean it because it's like, yes, it is. If you told me, you know, elevator pitch, what if Batman was bad and Robin needed to team up with Catwoman? I'd be like, cool. Cool. You know what's fun? I have to pitch every once in a while, uh, my book Americana.

[00:50:31] And when I wrote it, I was just like, this is a father son story. Cause all of my books somehow are. And it's a story about, uh, it's a coming of age horror story. And somebody is like, like what? And I'm like, it dream catcher, any Stephen King novel. And I was like, Oh, look, look, look, me writing Stephen King. Yeah. Like I, but then it's the execution. It's like, well, I was a funeral director. I get to write about like realistic grief. Right.

[00:50:57] Cause, uh, like you see the Punisher who was just like, my whole family was killed and now I can still function. And I'm like, no, you can't, man. Like I've seen the other side of that. You're not going to feel a lot for a while. And that's what Stephen King is rad. Like, that's the thing. Like you bring something to the table and sure. Like I, one of the reasons why I liked your stuff is because he does have that Stephen King flavor. You do have that. Like you punch his robots and then thinks about as if you have bad dad. Like you have those moments of reality there.

[00:51:27] And that's something that not everybody brings to the table. Not even Stephen King all the time, but I like that. Cause I like Stephen King. So when you, I'm like, I should check this out more often because I do dig that. There's nothing wrong with having a similar style. It's not the same execution. I, if I want that, I can go read American vampire. He did a great job there. Like, I don't have to worry about that. I think sometimes people it's back to like the pitching thing where people are afraid they're going to steal someone else's idea. Cause they only have one. Uh, and they don't know how to make up stuff like we do.

[00:51:55] Cause we do it day in and day out and we've done our work and pitching all those stories. So they run out of ideas. So they think that the one that they have, cause it's so important to them is gold. Cause they've never held a lot of gold before, right? Like a dollar is worth like a lot to people. If you've never had a dollar before. But when you have so many ideas, you start to learn that they're a little bit worthless. And I, and I hate saying that cause I love my ideas. They're my babies, but they are worthless until you do something with them. Yeah. You know, it's like having a bag of seeds. Who gives a shit? Did you plant them? Did you grow anything? You can't sell it at the farmer's market.

[00:52:25] I got seeds too, man. Everyone's got seeds. You got to plant them. You got to grow something cool that somebody wants to see first. I have a Google folder and it's just called the idea store. So every time I'm like, I've burnt out of ideas. I'm a fraud. I can't do anything. And then Emily would just be like, go check the idea store and I'll go through it. I'm like, Oh, this idea was, that's pretty cool. Mine just says novel ideas and it started out that way, but they're mostly comics now, but it's just, it's just literally, it's a Google doc of just like, that's what that one works, you know?

[00:52:55] And I just, hell, I just added it to it this week. I usually I'll be honest. Most of the adding to it comes in the form of dreams. Cause I just wake up in the morning. I'm like, that was weird writing that one. I get about a text message a day from Mr. Fish, Mr. Fish comics, especially love that another amazing dude on Tik TOK. Again, that guy, somebody I learned more about through tip, Tik TOK. Can't even see this word right now. But I love him. And about once a day, he texts me, Hey man, we'll go from this wild dream.

[00:53:22] What if, uh, like there was an infinite field and it screams at you and I'm like, I, okay. And he's like, I'm going to write it. And then he'll send me back like an outline for a story. And he's like, do you think you can make this work? And like, like he does that to me every single day. And I'm like fish, we have three series that we're like commissioned to create right now. We have other work to do. He goes, yeah, but what if we did a graphic novel in between, you know, sleeping? What if we sleep for 20 minutes and then I go draw a book for you? Okay. I think you need to skip the sleep and just work on it.

[00:53:50] I mean, that's what already what I do when we talk about how do we make comic books and be dads and have a day. Like that's how you just stop sleeping. Uh, do you ever notice why? Like when we first got on tick tock, we all look 20 and now we all look 90. Like, that's what happens. I know you look better, but you do have the bags. Oh, we're looking. Yeah. Like it's like, it's rough out here, you know, the camera. Well, you can still see it on your low res camera. And it's like, that's, that says a lot for what happens.

[00:54:19] Like if you want to make comic books, you just have to stop doing anything else, including sleep. Yes. Have no money and be really good at. I decided to cut out pooping altogether. Well, like, listen, you can write while pooping. It's hard to write while peeing. You can write while pooping. Well, that's where voice recordings come in. Oh yeah. You can start dictating. Just make sure you're doing it yourself and not like to like some sort of office. This, you know, worker there. Like you got to make sure that you're working solo. If that's like, listen, you're going to hear water in the background. I'm feeding my cat. Anyway.

[00:54:48] So the next thing that happens, I have been live with an artist before. Like I was working with this artist. We were working on a series that's being sold right now. So I can't talk too much about it. Oh, we're working in. Uh, you almost got me. I almost answered it. Don't do that. That that's why they had to find a new actor for the century. All right. Don't do that. So like we were working on a thing. So I brought him on a live and the, the publisher was secretly in the chat. Right? Like it was a buddy of mine.

[00:55:15] I was like, Hey, they don't know that we're going to be selling this to you. Do you want to come and like kind of meet the artist was going to kind of freak him out. The guy pees on lies. Like you can hear the flush and everything. And, and, uh, I get a message from the publisher and he goes, that's not the guy. Right? I'm like, of course not. No, it was a different guy. There was a couple of people on there. It's definitely not him. I messaged him frantically. I'm like, what did you do? I was like, I tried to cover for him. I was like, well, he's washing his dishes. And he says on live. He's like, no, man, I'm not washing my dishes. I had to go to the bathroom. And I'm like, you can't know. Oh, God. So don't worry.

[00:55:44] The publisher is not listening to this podcast. It's not live right now. But also, also the publisher doesn't know this exists until now. So anyway, I know exactly what you're saying though. It's always weird when hell. So often we talk to somebody and they'll be like, I can't tell you about this, but I'm doing a thing. Yeah. And I'm like, cool, but you just told me that you can't tell me, but all right. And then they'll remember that I'm like a journalist or whatever. And they're like, Oh, no, it's off the record. I'm like, I don't care. Yeah.

[00:56:15] That's not how it works. I'm not on duty. Exactly. And like, I never, I never like am sacred with my ideas. Like I'm pitching books right now. And there's some that I can talk about. Like I got a magical girl that I'm really close to two different publishers buying. It's magical girls. But what if instead of forming their own team and fighting bad guys in the nineties, they got picked up by the men in black and they become suits. And like, that's the whole pitch of the book. I can talk about that. Like someone might buy it. Like we're really, we're in negotiations right now for it, but like you can go make that book. It's going to be different than mine.

[00:56:44] Like that's not sailor suits. Right. That's that's not how ideas work. Like most of the time when people want to buy something from a creative, they want to buy it because they want to work with that creative. The idea is secondary. The dream I had the other day was there was this kid like middle school and he thought he was turning into a werewolf, but it turns out he was turning into a big foot. See, that's as far as I got with that dream. But I was like, this is the basis. This could be like a kid's book or something. I can see that happening. Yeah.

[00:57:13] Every one of my dreams is just very hyper realistic. Like in the moment, Hey, when you wake up, we got to go get coffee and then head to work and this is what your day is going to be. I don't, I don't dream. I dream like that too. Yeah. I dream movies. I dream like often I'm directing them. I'm very rarely in the dream. I'm usually it's like, and then this scene happens. I mean, your dreams sound rad. Like I wish I could do that. That's why I write them down the next day. I'm not bringing, uh, like every idea I came, like that I've written has come from just random lines of dialogue.

[00:57:42] Like I'll just like hear a conversation, but like, what was that? And then I started writing it down. But like, that's where it all, like, I never have like a cool visual pop into my head first and then I piece it together. And so it was just like, Oh, someone's talking about this. That's kind of set that. I was like, all right, let me discover. Yeah. It's just the wheels in motion. And then it like, yeah, rates into an idea that that's how my brain works too. I had a cool, like full finished dream. That's like, Oh, and this is the story.

[00:58:09] And now I'm writing this big foot, young adult, all ages, uh, graphic novel, uh, which you should totally write. You're going to make a lot of money off that. I wrote, uh, uh, all ages werewolf graphic novel. I've written it. No one's reading it. Right. I have a comic called Quentin Crawford. It's about big foot and two siblings going cross country to find them. And it's an A disease. Apparitions, Appalachia were the first one. Banshees in Baltimore. Chupacabras in Chicago is the next one. I I've written it. It's out. I just, I stopped writing it.

[00:58:37] Cause I was like, this is hyper specific towards my interest of like cryptids and writing about Chicago hot dogs. When I was 13, I wanted every book there was on cryptids. So like, have you ever read the audience? Well, there's two series from a Michigan writer. There was called the Michigan chillers and American chillers and, or American thrillers or something like that. Michigan. Michigan. Michigan. Michigan. Michigan. I don't know this. Where is this place? It's under the upper peninsula.

[00:59:08] Um, and like, Oh, Oh, that's where that is. Exactly. And like every single state would have a different cryptid. And that was what the books were about. And they sold very well, at least here in Michigan, where we don't have many things like the internet or, uh, TV. Um, but we, what we did have was books and, uh, no one reads them, but me, but like that sold pretty well. You could probably do something with that.

[00:59:31] It's all about getting it into front of the right audience because there's some goober that's like, I wish I knew about X cryptid and you can, you can give them that book. You'll make a solid $10, but someone out there wants it. Right. The, the one kid's book I wrote that does sell is the mighty camisodes and it's story about a sick dad and the son. And I'm just like, well, of course that's the one that made it. Yes. It's like, that's, that's what it takes, man. John, you'll do good at Disney. All right.

[00:59:59] As long as, as long as the parents are sick, constantly, Disney will be like, we're in, we're in. It's all the movies I wrote or watched growing up were Disney movies. And then I wrote burrow and I was like, Oh, it's cause I love bread wall. Or is it cause I love Robin? I know it. Yep. A whole lot. That movie is, there's a whole other awakening for that movie. But anyway, to be dead or caked up. Those are your two options when it comes to. Yeah. Pixar cakes them up. And right. Well, this is me. Like you're not a suit. Yes. Don't paint him into this. Yes.

[01:00:28] Bride parents. Let's do that. That might've been done before. Hold on. Um, but man, now I've lost so much plot. I'm just thinking of dead parents, not caked up parents. Let me, hold on. This is not. Oh, I can tell you about dead parents. Okay. Um, speaking of dead parents, uh, no, uh, no, I've been really, I've been really enjoying this conversation and I kind of wanted to ask, uh, but before we move on to finish the

[01:00:56] show, I want to ask you guys about stuff you've been watching lately and, and, uh, are getting into comics, TV shows, books. Um, TS you're joining us. What have you been into lately? Uh, been catching up on daredevil born again. Love that. So glad it's finally back. I've heard of this. I was a gigantic fan of the original series who wasn't right. Like, I don't know many nerds are like, I don't like daredevil. What's freaking me out about the series is that you guys know about the reshoots, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like they, they scrapped the whole season and did it over again. And I'm like, it's good.

[01:01:25] And usually, usually when I hear about that happening where they have to do all these kind of last minute reshoots, it's like, it still sucks. And I'm like, this is like, you know, when you have a memory of something and it's really good, but then you go back and see it and you're like, Oh, it wasn't good. Um, this is like my memory of the daredevil show, you know, and I'm really enjoying it. And I'm like, was that other season? Like, and like, it really seems like they've amped up a lot of stuff that was missing from the original series, like all of the courtroom drama.

[01:01:52] And I've seen some complaints from it, but especially people who love daredevil comics or police procedurals, you know, Midwestern dads like myself, uh, who watched a lot of law and order, you know, at 4am, uh, at whatever day job you had. And like, I, I love how much they've leaned into it. And I've seen some complaints where like, we're still no daredevil in, you know, in so many episodes. I'm like, I'm loving so much about this. I mean, now I'm thinking about in born again, in the original comic, he wasn't daredevil for the majority of it was all. Wasn't that the whole point?

[01:02:21] He's in it for like, like two seconds in the first issue. And then they pops up within the last issue basically is it. It's all about him born again, becoming daredevil again. And so when I see that in here, I'm like, no, this is rad. I love the courtroom drama. It's all written. Well, they're saying stuff like with dead pan. Don't worry. It's admissible in court because he wasn't wearing his magical amulet. And I'm like, they just said that with like, just offhand, no stress, straight face talking about his magical amulet. By the way, I want to touch base on that.

[01:02:51] The episode three spoilers for episode that came out by this point, two weeks ago, if you're listening to us live or not live ish when it comes out. Um, this is the story of white tiger. And I literally just posted a video today about that because I have been talking about Latino superheroes for a while and white tiger has been the bane in my existence. Um, because he was, uh, touted as, you know, Marvel's first great Latino superhero. And he literally got his powers from the garbage.

[01:03:21] Um, but, um, but the thing is that some other hero threw away, but as bad as that origin was, his ending was worse. And yeah, I went back to reread it and it was very well written. It's Bendis. It's well written. It's just not well thought out. And then for the TV show, they have the chance to like, readdress this. And they add, add the fact that it's now all Matt Murdoch's fault. Yeah.

[01:03:49] And I'm like, like, I mean, everything that happens after this is because of you, Matt, like seriously, like what the, what, at least it wasn't entirely his fault in the original comic. It was just like, Oh, incidentally his fault. This is like, you literally did that. Like, you don't out somebody publicly by the way, John, if something everybody needs to know about you. I just, I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I did appreciate that. And like, I liked that he was trying to do the right thing. Very clearly went around it the wrong way. A great, you know, uh, analogy for allyship.

[01:04:17] And I think that that works, you know, like it really is. It's like, we're just really loud and trying to help. And we do a terrible job of it. Like that's, that's helping people like you. And, but like, I also think that it gets to touch on a lot of the police brutality stuff that needs to be talked about. And I liked it in the original comic. I went back to reread it. I always find out says, Oh, they treat me really nice in prison. And I'm like, and so I really love someone that doesn't know. Yeah, exactly. I really love that.

[01:04:46] They are, are not only addressing that, but they're doing two things that I could see. Number one, having Matt, especially in the comics, he's always doing the, the, the pro bono stuff for, for, for, for people would hear it's like, he's actually getting to have conversations with people to learn. Well, just having faith, the justice system isn't enough. And then the second thing they're doing is flat out, you know, with all the cops having the Punisher tattoos on them, they're like, we are going to make sure that if you associate a cop with this symbol, that's a bad person. And I'm like, way to go Marvel. I love that.

[01:05:16] And they attempted to do it in the comics and then they skirted around it. Cause they kind of chickened out of it. It would, the, the, the last result of that was they, they gave Punisher a brand new logo and powers. So ugly. It was, it was, but it was intended to be, I think, I think that was kind of the point. Uh, but they, they replaced, uh, fascism with cultural appropriation, which is a weird choice. Uh, but, but then where we left off. Not for Marvel. Yeah. True. Um, what we left off with Punisher though, if you read the last issue of that series

[01:05:45] is he got sent to a magical fairy land and that's it. We don't know what happened to Frank after that. And I'm like, man, that would be a fun story. I want to see Frank. I want to see John Bernthal do that story. I would love to see the alpha male guy and go and like, Oh, no, wait, time out. I want to say real quick, John Bernthal is not playing the alpha male, a Frank, which is what I loved about his series. He's playing Frank who acknowledges and deals with PTSD. Uh, he's a Frank who, who actually pauses and goes, should I kill this person?

[01:06:13] And I'm like, they softened him for the show because you have to. And I like it, you know, I like job with that. The first comic I really remember. Cause I, the, my first comic was like the Bart Simpson comics. But then when I started like investing in it myself, it was Punisher war journal, but from like the eighties. Um, it's a one like the covers, like him jumping gun in hand or whatever.

[01:06:35] I never was down inside of it is, uh, it's a poem and it's the, uh, what is it? Uh, it's, uh, I think it's like Robert Frost or what women. It's a guy wandering through the woods. Oh, whose woods these are. I think I know this house is in the spirit. It's just that it all the narration, everything that's happening is Frank castle's origin story, but to that poem.

[01:07:02] And that stuck with me so much of like, cause I knew Punisher was from like the Spider-Man cartoon and from like the movie and all that. But you saw the Dolph Lugger movie. Cause I did as a kid. I did. That sticks with you. Fuck. I always remember get a knife in his boot. And I was like, I want to hear what has a knife in his boot. I don't know. Yeah. But it stuck with me to where we wrote a lockjaw short that like, it's just to that poem.

[01:07:28] And I was just like, cause this it it's like, it's what I wanted more Punisher to be. And I'm consistently disappointed that they don't write, especially as a funeral director, like you are not treating trauma. This guy is not getting up and it's like my constant critique. And I live in Illinois. So there's a lot of, uh, pickup trucks. F one fifties with that punishment logo in the back. The sure. I'm in Texas. Yeah. Right. Nothing crazy happens in Texas. Everything's fine. It's feasible. Florida.

[01:07:57] There's no Warren bossing say it's all fine. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I, I love the, the, they've softened Frank. They've let him sit in his sadness, which is a thing. I don't think that enough like comic books are willing to do with their characters. I didn't think I could watch his series until I saw the, the series. I was like, Oh, they, they actually did this right. And like you were saying with, with Matt and like, I don't want to spoil episode four since you haven't seen it yet, John, but they, they show him how wrong he is with how he's representing a lot of his pro bono clients. Like a character just calls him out.

[01:08:26] He's like, listen, sure. Maybe I did a bad thing, but you never even asked me why. Like you, you don't understand what I'm dealing with. Yeah. I'm supposed to thank you for what you're doing. Like you don't know me. And they just, the only spoiler I have episode four is I love the writing. Yeah. It was so good, you know? And I love that stuff. I want to touch base something John said a minute ago where you were disappointed that other Frank stories weren't good. Other Punisher stories. And it's like, to me, Punisher, Eternals and Inhumans, they were all family anyway.

[01:08:53] Uh, those three, you can have a good short mini series with them, but like none of those three should have ongoing series. All of them should be background for other characters, you know, because Punisher works best as a foil. I love them as a foil.

[01:09:08] It works best when it's either showing somebody what they need to do or showing somebody what they shouldn't do or, you know, like it's just, by the way, there are two separate Punisher stories in which a cosmically powered hero with powerful bracelets, um, goes to Punisher to learn how to be a killer. It's weird that it happened twice. You know, there's, um, the Greg Rucka run of Punisher where they gave him, uh, the sidekick. Oh, wait, which one? Can I talk about, uh, microchip? The girl. That wasn't Greg Rucka.

[01:09:37] No, no, it was more recent. It was maybe the last five or 10 years. It was Greg Rucka, but he, Greg Rucka does a really good thing where his main characters, the title characters don't talk because I don't need to know what Wolverine's saying. He's just going through it and somebody else is dictating Wolverine's thoughts. He did it with Punisher. Yeah. Batman story narrated entirely by Robin is always good. And it's, but that was so cool for Punisher cause I was like, okay, this is what that first issue I sold like all of my old comics.

[01:10:07] I kept that one. Ah, and, uh, my, uh, Neil Adams signed man bad appearance because those are the two that like affected me the most. Yeah. So I sold, I sold all of my old comics, but kept all of the Archie Ninja Turtles because that was the first series that I bought front to you. And I began to, yeah, I love that. But then like, I want a good Punisher story. I want the like self exploration. I love these ideas. Let me just tell you about it. Well, the ideas are the important part. So we can't use the term Punisher.

[01:10:36] So we're going to use a different term for punishment. I looked it up. We're going to call him the Avenger. Oh yeah. That's free. That's good to use. Well, we don't have a problem. Uh, and he doesn't use guns. He'll use like armor attack or something. No one's done that. Well, what if, what if, um, Have you seen the boys? Oh my God. Um, you know, everybody always talks about Punisher issues. I've noticed something that if I see somebody that has a Batman story, that is just Batman with the different coat of paint. Like there's no actual extra depth to it.

[01:11:05] I worry about that person. I've, I've, I've never met somebody that does that kind of a story. That is not a little bit troubling. And, um, the people that want to tell those stories the most are the people that like my advice is always read more comics. They're always like, I want to do this Batman story. I'm like, Oh, big Batman fan. Like I've never really read the comics. Like they're not, they don't have that input of stuff. And I'm like, I, I don't understand. Why do you want to do this? Then you don't read a hundred of these a week. Like what are you doing? What gets to me is, is how did I'm getting off topic here that we do all day anyway.

[01:11:34] Um, but like, how do you go about reading all of these superhero stories as a kid and then not, not internalize any of those hero lessons? Like the people that think Superman would vote right wing, like, right. Like how do you see that? Like I, I, it baffles me. I'm honest to God flabbergasted every time I see it. I actually had somebody contact me the other day. Cause they know that I do comic book history stuff and they're like, Hey, I saw that, that, that panel of Superman and a bunch of multicultural kids saying that you should never trust anybody that bullies somebody who looks different from them. Is that real?

[01:12:03] Yes, that's real. It's just like really good. AI is what that is. We all know it. Well, no, I mean, cause well, cause the, the, the whole moon night going after Dracula thing, that's, that's all Photoshop. But like, but, but like that one was like, no, this is real. Superman does want you to love everyone equally. And yes, it's Superman. Again, there's people that are, that want to like put like different things on them because they've never actually read a Superman comic. Yeah. And, and, and it's, it baffles me. I'm like, why pick that guy?

[01:12:32] You can make up any character and make them right wing and crazy and bigoted. Why Superman? See, when I was a kid, I thought in the American way. He's an illegal alien, man. Like I, well, I just told somebody this the other day, you know, that when, you know that when, uh, you know that when, uh, John Byrne, or reboot it for man in the eighties, they were originally going to make him born on earth. So, so, okay. So check it out. Uh, the one that published this black little spaceship comes down and it opens up and insides baby Kal-El and it's called a birthing matrix.

[01:13:02] And it's called that because they wanted to say that he's legally or Kansas, but. Oh my God. But you should see the pages exist. He actually drew what he originally wanted, which was they crash with Laura L giving birth and dying. And it's like, wow. He just really didn't want to make him illegal. Yeah. Like, like that's trying really hard to make sure people aren't represented by this character. Like, wow. They were trying so hard. And that's like, sometimes when I see the hoops, they jump through. Right. That's true.

[01:13:32] Like it wouldn't matter anyway. Exactly. Like, it doesn't matter. I just, I've never understand like how hard they have to work to try to paint their, their views onto a character. I'm like, there's other characters. Go, go support new, go look at new for two seconds and you can go. Exactly. He could be your guy. You know, when I was a little kid, I thought I would hate Captain America. I thought Captain America was just too, too jingoistic. I was that, I was that kind of kid. Um, and, but then I actually read some Steve Rogers books and I was like, Oh, I get it now. Yeah.

[01:14:02] He's Superman. Like that's the point. Uh, effective for years. I would tell people that my favorite Superman movie is still is up to this point actually is Captain America. The first adventure, because that's the way Superman should act. Yeah. And that's why I'm really kind of hoping for the one coming out of the summer, because I have yet to get that in a movie. Yeah. Since Christopher Reeve, you know, it's like, I hate how much, how much of my hope is pinned on that movie for like so many different things. I'm like, I, it just has to be good. You need to check on me if it's not good.

[01:14:27] I will say there are two things that I've said I don't want in a Superman movie. One is Lex Luthor. And the second one is an evil person with Superman's powers. Yeah. I think we're going to get both of those this summer. But, but, but we're getting the dog. Yeah. And I'm okay with that. Right. I will. The dog could negate the other two. Let's find out. And again, I don't have any problem with Lex Luthor. I love him, the stories. I have no problem with evil, evil twin stories. I've done so much though.

[01:14:55] It's just every Superman movie is either Lex Luthor or an evil Superman or both. Hear me out. What if we get him into like a real estate plot? And so like really subvert the thing and like, wait, wait, wait, wait, the evil Superman. Yeah. Why? Because now we're talking. What if we did Homelander, but he's actually a good guy? Oh, that's a great idea. I love that. What if he was like patriotic, but like, for the world. Also, what do you mean Homelander's not a good guy? Excuse me? I want to need you to expand upon that because have you seen the show? He has an American flag. That's true. He has to be a good guy by law.

[01:15:25] What are you talking about? Yeah, he's a Christian. Uh, um, but I people like I've addressed the Homelander thing a couple of times because it came up when I was first writing Hullian and Bash and I listed him as an example. And I had people legitimately asking like, what do you mean? Like, I sure he does some bad things, but isn't he like morally gray? And I'm like, no, there's nothing gray about this. Are we, are we watching the same show? Are we reading the same book? Like, that's, that's the thing that I don't understand. He's not an anti-hero?

[01:15:54] There's no one cares what we're thinking about. It's it honestly, it makes me so upset that I could cry because I, I love these characters so much. Like I get, if you don't understand what Archie's about, like, I love Archie to death. There's so many things that you can do in an Archie comic. I get, if you don't understand it because it's a superhero. Right. But I just, I don't get why. Okay. The point is, the point is there are all these ideas out there and it's just, it's not the character.

[01:16:22] It's what you do with that character. It's how you build that character. It's who's telling the story. It's it's you out there listening to our podcast. I'm going to suggest you have to write your own story, draw your own story, act in your own story. Be like these two and not like me that does two books every four years. Um, Hey, listen, um, T.S. I have loved having you here and now I am upset at myself for missing so many of your lives, although I have seen a few of them. Um, where can people find you online? I am at T.S.

[01:16:51] Luther everywhere that you can find people online, mostly blue sky and tick tock. I have a website called can't be killed creations with all my books on there. Uh, I'm being published by professional entropy brand new publisher. I'm like the only creator they have right now. So you can find all of my stuff there for the most part. And then later on this year, find the digger. We were just talking about it at invader comics. So that's the important one when it goes to going into a comic book shop, tell them you want that book. Tell them you want this dude from tick tock T.S. Luther in invader comics. They're not everywhere.

[01:17:20] They're in a lot of shops, but because diamond blew up distribution is a little bit wonky right now. So if people go to your tick tock, are they going to? Are they going to know that that you are involved in comics in some way? I know. I try to mention it. Sometimes I try to make sure it happens. How would you how would you word that? I sometimes I'll open up a video. You know, I say hello kind of thing. I'll stroke my beard, but I usually say hi. My name's T.S. And I write comics. You're that guy. I knew I knew I knew I knew him from somewhere. All right.

[01:17:48] And and John, one of our team here. How could people find you online at a Vena comics everywhere? All platforms, all socials on that. Good branding. My branding is not as good on many of the socials. Tick tock and Instagram, especially. And I am Kevin Garcia underscore com because as Freddie remind you over and over again, I'm also Kevin Garcia dot com. Apparently I do own it. Um, but blue sky does not let me have an underscore.

[01:18:14] So on blue sky, I'm just Kevin Garcia, which is fair because that means every other Kevin Garcia has to read in as those anyway, just like they have two on their websites because I got it first guys. Um, and of course this is my previous podcast and you can find us at my previous podcast.com and of course using that at symbol on pretty much every one of social medias at my previous podcast. And by the way, I should mention, we didn't really get talked about this a lot earlier, but we have my previous podcast have been creating a Patreon and we have in this Patreon

[01:18:42] been doing kinds of, well, whatever it is we do. So for example, I, I talk about comics a lot, but I never do reviews. So I've been doing comic book reviews there. John, I just say, let him cook. Cause he knows, I, he knows what he's doing. He literally cooks. I give recipes and I cook. I talk a lot about comics. Let someone else do it. I'm just going to make food and feed guests. That's my thing. Yeah. Meanwhile, we got, uh, Elia who is there doing show reviews and then Freddie, who is just

[01:19:13] so, uh, yeah, we are also at, uh, at Patreon, just my primos at Patreon. I just want to point that out. Um, and, uh, with that, I want to thank you guys for being here and keep an eye out for, for TS next time he is on Kickstarter because he will be back. Uh, and keep an eye out for both TS and John at your local comic stores. And if they're not a show of comic stores, talk to your local comic stores and ask them, are they okay? Something wrong? Why do they not have these comics?

[01:19:40] And with that, thank you guys for joining us on my primos podcast. Say goodbye, everybody. Goodbye, everybody. Hey, yeah. Hey up. Hey up man. .