S8 EP2: Avengers Academy W/ Anthony Oliveira

[00:00:00] What's up, Primos, Primas, and Primas? Welcome to My Primos, My Primos, My Primo Podcast. Welcome to the My Primos Podcast. My name is Freddy. My name is Kevin Garcia. My name is Elia Maria Matiz. My name is John Avina. This is Chikumi. Whenever I can make it. My Primos Podcast discusses all things fandom and pop culture. From comic books, movies, to whatever obsession we have this week. But with a Latine, Latine, Latine perspective, remember, we're all Primos. We're all Primas. Primas. Primos.

[00:00:30] No matter what part of the world we're from. Que onda, Primos y Primas! Welcome to My Primos Podcast. Back from a break and minus Primo Freddy, who is our founder and glorious leader. But my name is Kevin Garcia. I am the stalwart here that apparently fills a hole, apparently, according to the memes that were going around last year. But with us is our new regular Primo, John Avina. John, say hello to the people. Hello, people.

[00:00:59] John and myself are both into indie comics a lot right now. We both have published, I would say a lot. No, no, I've published two in the past four years. John, how many have you published in the past three years? With the comic we just got in, we're at 41. Okay, there you go. So two to 41, we're both basically at the same level. But we have with us today a guest who is currently also in comic books working with Marvel. And that is Anthony Oliveira. Anthony, welcome to the show.

[00:01:26] Hello, hello. I've never heard anyone say my name right before on anything. I actually went to Oliveira High School, so there you go. Whoa, yeah. You're nailing it. Actually, Oliveira Middle School, actually, sorry. Yeah, I'm from down on the border between Texas and Mexico, and pretty much most of the schools there have Spanish or Spanish-sounding names. Now, when I reached out to you, by the way, it was because of Avengers Academy, Marvel Limited, Avengers Academy, which I'm loving. Oh, thank you.

[00:01:54] But when I reached out to you, you mentioned that you were Azorian, and that means your family's from the Azores, correct? That's correct, yeah. Which is not something most people are familiar with. But yes, if you put your finger, if you're looking at a map of the Earth and you put your finger somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic, you're probably covering an island chain called the Azores. And my family is from São Miguel in the middle of that. It's a Portuguese island chain that makes a lot of cheese.

[00:02:23] There's a lot of cows. There's a lot of German tourists hiking around. And my family were whalers, actually. I think I'm the first member, first generation in my family not to have killed a whale. There's still time. There's still time, yeah. I've got my eye on one in particular who knows what he did. Yeah, no? Yeah, somebody said that the Azores are to Portugal, but like maybe Easter Island or other things, were to Spain.

[00:02:50] Yeah, but there's no, there's famously like no, it was completely unoccupied when the Portuguese sort of stumbled. Yeah, is it true? Yeah, it was sort of literally found. It's one of the few places I guess you can say discovered. Although many times I guess it was. There's like a lot of Azorean people who are like, oh, we were Atlantis actually. But it is sort of like just a little volcanic island chain.

[00:03:15] They left a bunch of goats there and they came back and were like, well, the goats are still alive, so I guess we can live here. But like the flora and fauna are almost all introduced from abroad. Like pineapples were introduced there and tea was introduced there. Everything that grows or lives there kind of had to be brought over, which makes it like it's full of scientists who are interested in that. But yeah, that's where my family's from. We've been there as far as I know, as far as we can remember.

[00:03:46] And my parents basically fled in the 70s when Portugal was losing control of its various colonial enterprises. The Azores were a very useful way to draft people to die overseas without upsetting anyone in mainland Portugal. So my uncle died and my grandmother got the notice that my father was drafted. She's like, I'm not losing another kid. So she sent him through a very strange Hitchcockian route through Europe.

[00:04:13] And then he flew to Canada with someone pretending to be his mom and declared his intent to stay. So we've been here ever since. There's a lot actually of Azorians in Toronto, most Portuguese people. There's more here than the Azores, actually, for that exact reason. I believe that. I actually, I was unaware of that, but that makes a lot of sense. In past episodes, we've talked a little bit about our own family histories. And a lot of them do come down to escaping revolutions, although mine in a very weird way.

[00:04:38] My great-grandfather came from Mexico during the revolution down there in the early 1900s. But not because he was targeted, not because he didn't want to kill people, not because he was caught in the crossfire. It was because a friend of his father offered to pay for his college. And he's like, I'm not going to school. And he came to America. So my family came to the U.S. escaping in education. Wow. Mine was, yeah, mine was escaping fascism. That's much more accountable, I think.

[00:05:04] The Carnation Revolution, a cousin in my family, was one of the only men who died in that event. Like, good Marxist young man who was shot by Salazar's troops. Yeah. Wild bit of history in my family. And as you said, most people don't even know what the Azores are. I've never heard my name pronounced correctly by any podcast ever. Actually, I'm kind of curious now. What have you heard? It's funny. I feel like there's, like, a magic spell on my name where the thing that really goes wrong is no one spells it right.

[00:05:31] Like, I can be spelling it to someone, and I watch them misspell it even though I've just told them how to spell it. Like, I get Olivera without the I. I get E-R-I-A. I get E-I-E-R-A. It's all the versions. It gets very, like, Olivierias and stuff happen a lot. Yeah. That kind of reminds me. John, do you Enya or no Enya as far as you go?

[00:05:58] I use Enya, but a lot of, like, because I'm a funeral director as well, so a lot of the programs that I use won't allow the Enya sign on any of the documents. So I have to drop it for that. But every time I have to spell my name for somebody over the phone, it's always A-B-I-N-A. So now it's like, even if I'm just spelling it to someone that knows me, I'm like, A-V as in Victor, I-N as in N-T-A. Otherwise, it just comes out crazy. It's not even that hard of a name. Right.

[00:06:26] Now, I remember when I used to teach on the border, and I used to have a bunch of kids that would have all kinds of names, and they would just kind of, like, I kind of give up on them when it comes to typing. And I'm like, look, guys, I'm going to show you the alt codes, and you can type them in. So whatever your name is, it's going to pop up. But it always depends on the program, because some programs just won't accept it regardless. Believe it or not, there was a point in which Word and Google Docs said that Garcia was misspelled, despite being the most common Spanish last name. Wow. Now, every time I open Word, it's got that weird little AI assistant screwing things up.

[00:06:56] It's like, are you sure you're not speaking Spanish? Yeah, exactly. We've been trying to deactivate AI everywhere. As creators ourselves, AI has been kind of the bane of our existence lately. Yeah, I never imagined I would turn into what's-her-name from Star Trek Next Generation. The Doctor replaces Wes- Pulaski? Pulaski, yeah. Suddenly I'm like, fuck AI. Like, get out of here. That is the most obscure yet accurate reference that I've heard. Yes. Pulaski was right. I'm like, you're not a person?

[00:07:26] We need to have Quentin Quire wearing a shirt that says Pulaski was right. Yeah, yeah, it's true. The Chicagoans would like that one as well, I think, right? I am a big fan. Oh, yeah. But it's just, it's an ongoing fight, both in protecting the art of the people we work with, protecting their jobs. I know some people that, like, you would get hired all the time to do, like, concept art. And now they're like, I don't need to hire somebody. I just go there. And then also, you know, people that are just like, oh, I don't need to hire anybody at all because I am now an artist. And it's just like, yeah.

[00:07:57] We're going to have to wait through 10 years of trash and watch a lot of people's careers get incinerated before we're like, actually, this is ugly and bad.

[00:08:34] Oh, no. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like, because at some point, it's to the point that studios will be fighting the AI just the way artists and writers currently are. And it's just, we all thought we were going to get the future with jetpacks and flying cars. And instead, the machines are doing the poetry and we're doing the manual labor. So, although I think I'd crash my jetpack pretty much instantly. So it's probably good. I'd do two, but it'd be fun. Yeah. I'm not coordinated enough for that. Yeah. No, I'd go straight into a lamppost. Well, we wanted to ask you about the stuff.

[00:09:04] Like I said, why I discovered your stuff was through Avengers Academy. And I'll be honest, I had been reading a few of the Marvel Unlimited things. I'm a big Marvel geek. I've been, I don't come as a Marvel zombie anymore because that's been tainted. But I read a bunch of stuff through Marvel and I was reading a few of the Unlimited ones and then I kind of stopped for a bit. And when the Academy came out, you know, I gave it a look because I liked it. But then I didn't for a bit. And then for whatever reason, a few weeks ago, I was just like, I want to read this. So I started reading it and I just could not stop.

[00:09:33] That makes me very happy to hear. I was cracking up out loud. You know, my partner kept asking me like, what's going on? I'm like, it's Marvel. You got to read this. And she just stared at me. She reads comics too, but she reads other comics. So I was like, all right. And no, it's just really funny. And one thing I love about it is I'm a big continuity geek. And I just love seeing old callbacks done in silly ways that aren't just like, you know. And I want to kind of ask how you got to this point. And I guess, well, yeah, what brought you to Marvel? What was that path like? I have always been a Marvel kid. Like I grew up.

[00:10:02] I remember the first comic I ever got was a Spider-Man comic that came with a jar of peanut butter in which Electro was smuggling drugs into Montreal in hockey pox. I remember it very distinctly. I think the art is by Todd McFarlane, if I'm not mistaken. Like, yeah, it's some kind of peanut butter tie in. It's always funny when you have like the early creations of somebody like the first Marvel Frank Miller work is the cover of Rom Space Knight. So, wow, yeah.

[00:10:31] I don't even think it was the beginning of his career. I think it was just CanCon and he was just like, I'm in. And then I very quickly at a scholastic book fair was converted to X-Men. And I kind of just grew up with it. I was right at the right age for the cartoon to hit. My first comics were Executioner's Song because they were so easy to find in the back issues because of the bags that they were in.

[00:10:53] And I kind of just grew up with Marvel and like it was really there for me when I was having the same experience I think a lot of the X-Men have where it's like the news is talking about how I'm a bad person. I don't think I'm a bad person. So like the queer allegory was incredibly important to me growing up. And I did a PhD in 17th century literature. And then when that ended, it was I sort of just found myself really burning up to do some creative work.

[00:11:21] And this was back in the time where editors were on Twitter and things. And Will Moss saw a tweet of mine and was like, you should write something for us. And at the time, Sarah Bronstadt was his assistant and Sarah was a huge cheerleader for me. And when Sarah wanted to start Avengers Academy, she came to me and was like, I've got this thing I want to do. Are you interested? I was like, yes, I am. And that's how what became Avengers Academy was born. It was originally called Marvel Academy.

[00:11:50] But yeah, my goal was always, as you said, I was really interested in. I love a deep dive, whether it's from academia or what, but I just like to dig into the archive and be like, I think one of the great pleasures of Big Two comics is that there's such a deep bench of lore. And I really like that Marvel is like, it all happened. It's all true. Anything you can find is germane.

[00:12:14] So I love to have a character reference, a conversation from 50 years ago or bring back someone. People haven't, like Arnie Roth was really important to me. I was like, I don't know who Arnie is. So I wanted to bring him back and like sort of, that's sort of the joy of the Avengers Academy is like these kids are learning about the Marvel Universe along with, I hope, new readers as well as old readers who are like, I remember that story. So, yeah.

[00:12:42] Well, I mean, I think it does work also for, I myself am a new reader. Like I said, I skipped a lot of the Marvel Unlimited original stories until recently getting into like Alligator, Loki and other stuff I just barely started getting into. And reading Avengers Academy, maybe we want to go back and read Marvel Voices, which apparently I'd skipped a lot of. So, yeah, it's worked for me. That makes me happy to hear.

[00:13:08] I think part of why I didn't initially pick it up is the roster didn't do much for me initially because I don't read Spider-Man books that much. And I was like, shouldn't Normie be much younger than this? So I wasn't even thinking about that. And then Moon Girl, I'm a big Moon Girl fan, but I've always like, she should be in a future foundation. That's where I thought she should be. And, you know, it's just, you know, as it goes. But then, and as I picked it up, the roster was the strong point. So that was, that was what made it really work. Did you pick out those characters or were they like, this is who we want you to use?

[00:13:36] I think that it definitely wasn't that. I think it was, there's a moment, I think for most team books where it's like, it's kind of like doing your draft picks where it's like, well, can I have this person? Can I have this person? And we went through a lot of rounds. And part of it is just like, that character's busy, that character will be dead or evil by the time this comes out. You know, that's kind of part of the game. But also like, I think when designing a book like this, you also have to think about like, not just who you want, but how these characters would interact.

[00:14:06] Sometimes I could get one character, but not a character I wanted them to interact with. You want to think about team composition and stuff like that. So, but it was, yeah, it was a back and forth for a lot of it, but I wanted it to be the characters that I thought the audience had given up on was important to me. Which is, was me flat out. Yeah, right. You know, like I always thought Moon Girl had potential. I thought all of the new Americas from the United States of America had potential.

[00:14:32] So, you know, and I was, I was curious about Kid Juggernaut. I did read his first appearance in the, his origin story. Right. But yeah, they, I'm a big fan of obscure characters. And these guys were like new obscure. And I was like, well, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah, I, I definitely, Kid Juggernaut was my creation, our creation. And I, I thought he filled an important stories.

[00:14:56] He's like, I wanted, one thing you want when you're creating a new team is like, you want someone who is the POV and as fresh as that character can be is ideal. It's always, as you probably know, like it's a lot to get Marvel to okay a new character. Yeah. They're always going to say, well. Especially the one with the older IP. Yes, exactly. It's like, especially one that's like, yeah, that's hitting on like a Lee and Kirby creation, right? Like if you're going to start tapping a main line like that, you really have to go, like, you really have to convince them.

[00:15:24] And I, Kid Juggernaut started as a 10-page pitch document for me to Marvel where I was like, here's what he would address. Like, the Cain Marcos story is great, but it's full of like Orientalist stuff. The origin was always set in Korea. And yet, no Koreans in the story. Precisely, yeah. And I was like, I want, especially with a book that's called Marvel's Voices, I want it to make space for that kind of diversity and to redress what is basically like, yeah, like you said, the big erasure of that story is like the Korean character.

[00:15:54] And the others, it was like, well, I want to make sure that there's trans representation at Marvel. So Escapade came in very early. I knew very early on that. I knew very early on that I wanted. It's been sort of really bad at both books that no one has, there have been no HIV positive characters who have lasted more than like two issues. So I knew that storyline was going to be important. So getting Mysteriant in there was important.

[00:16:22] Yeah, but I wanted it to be a book where it was like, here's the people that if they never appeared again, people would be like, well, I guess that didn't work out. And I was like, can we show how these engines work? Can we put legs under these characters? It was always a major part of this story for me. Well, like you said, you were giving voices to these characters. You have, like I said, putting the Korean heritage back into Jerkernet's origin, essentially. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:51] What about characters that are, well, more of the moment? I mentioned Moongirl earlier. Bloodline is another one who was getting kind of a push through the recent giant crossover, Blood Hunt. How have you kind of adapted to these characters that already have, well, at least in Moongirl's case, already have some kind of expectation from an audience? Yeah, it's funny because it's funny that the two youngest characters in this book, Normie Osborne and Moongirl, are also by a huge margin the ones that have much larger publication histories. Like, Normie Osborne has like many hundreds of appearances.

[00:17:22] Similarly, Moongirl has a lot of story that she brings to the table. And I wanted the book to feel like I went to an all-boys Catholic school and the spread of ages there was from like seventh grade to OAC, which is like grade 13 in Canada, which no longer exists. So like my experience was like being 11 and in uniform with someone who was 19 in the same uniform as me.

[00:17:51] And Avengers Academy is kind of designed to feel like that, which is sometimes a little baffling to a lot of American readers. Like they don't really understand the age spread. But to me, that's quite natural. I think it's also very, it's very Canadian. It's very British too. And when you say Academy, that's what I think of. It's important to me to always do my homework. Like I try as much as possible to read every appearance of a character. I try to think about how they work. Normie was interesting because, as you said, people are like, he can't be this old.

[00:18:19] But he was already canonically 11 years old when I got him. And I was like, look, here's the panel where they say he's 11. The thing happens in Marvel Comics. The same thing happens in soap operas where a character goes upstairs and suddenly they come downstairs and they're 10 years older. Yep, that does happen. And that's because that's where stories live, right? What's that? Sorry. I said, and yet Spider-Man is not allowed to go past 29 apparently. Yeah. Unless it's your an ultimate book and then you really move off the shelves.

[00:18:47] I think we're ready for these characters to get older, you know? I think that's the demonstration that book is giving us. But I understand the anxiety about it for sure. John, as a writer who's kind of controlling your own universe, what do you think about that concept of trying to play in somebody else's sandbox? I mean, I'm always excited to try that. I get writers that'll come in and try to, like, pitch something to me that's, like, one of my universes, one of my stories. And it's always a little bit strange. I'm a little interested in, like, your writing process for that.

[00:19:16] So when you started, did you do, like, one arc at a time? Or are you more of, like, not so much outlining the whole thing but, like, kind of going, like, two issues at a time? Oh, the book is outlined to the end. Like, I know, I already know the series finale of the book. I know. And it's referenced as early as the first issue.

[00:19:39] I think one of the pleasures of the book that is basically non-existent in 2025 anymore in the industry is, like, I know I have a long run. Most comics now are four issues long, like, if you're lucky. And they have to read, like, movies, right? Like, it has to be some big blockbuster event. I don't have to worry about that. I can just, at midnight tonight, Valentine's Day issue comes out.

[00:20:04] And it's, like, Enchantress is mad that Justin didn't like her back because he's gay. And so she curses the team. And it's, like, I can do the kinds of stories that Claremont was doing where it's, like, sometimes we're just going to catch our breath. We're going to get to know the characters. But I am, at heart, a formalist. I have to know where things are going. Things are fungible. Like, for example, we kind of are hopeful that we're going to go past our initial 66-issue order.

[00:20:31] So I know, like, that means I can do these storylines that I was worried I wouldn't have time for. But I'm a big believer in, like, form. Like, where, by the end of this story, where do these characters need to be? What do I want them to have grown up to be? The question of the book is, like, what does it mean to you to be a hero? And I want all the characters to have their own answers by the end. I'm a big, to a degree that is annoying, I think, for a lot of people. Like, this issue has to be this one and this issue has to be this one. So. Yeah.

[00:21:00] What about you? Are you? So I do that. I always know how something's going to end when I start it because I need to know where my doors are for me. Yeah. But I'll let them kind of tell me somewhere in the middle, like, there'll be room for fun. I kind of like doing that, too, where there's, it doesn't have to be that cinematic, just for and out. I like to have little references to something that might come up somewhere else or just Easter egg little things that are just, like, details for me and then for my readers to kind of have fun with.

[00:21:28] But you mentioned Claremont and that's a really good thing because when I was reading it, that's what it reminded me of. Like, a lot of people will try to do that with, like, X-Men and stuff where they're just like, we're going to have them, like, sitting on a couch playing Game Boy. Especially with, like, Teen Titans, you can tell people are trying to do, like, that Claremont X-Men. But yours was the first time where I read it and I was like, this is authentically that same sensation that I got reading that. And I really wanted to compliment you on that because that's, like, a lot of people will try to imitate that feeling but you knock it out of the park.

[00:21:58] Oh, thanks. That means the world to me. I mean, I grew up, like, Claremont raised me, you know. And it is a bit of a learning curve for the audience, too. I noticed very early on in the first few issues, people were like, we'd end on a cliffhanger and people would expect that cliffhanger to pay off the following week. And it's like, no, that's, like, ten issues from now. Which is something Claremont would do back then. So that actually attracts.

[00:22:24] But also, it's actually, like, it's even a learning curve in terms of, like, how much dialogue is on a page, right? Like, one of the advantages of the infinity form is that I'm not limited to the structure of a traditional physical page, right? One of the things that was a real mission statement for me when we started this book was, like, at the beginning, people were always saying, like, oh, it's too bad it's digital only. I wish it was in print.

[00:22:49] And I wanted that to change to now where people are like, I don't even know how you would print this. Like, the use of the endless scroll and the amount of dialogue to me was about sort of form-breaking from sort of coming unglued from the way a traditional page works. And that's Claremont, too, right? Like, Claremont characters talk more. They have more chances to engage with each other. It's not just, like, time for a punch and then a splash on the next page and then we got to wrap up for the end of the story, right?

[00:23:18] Yeah, thank you. That means so much to me. That's the highest compliment you can give my work as far as I'm concerned. Is there a limit? Because you said you have this form that you can go, this unlimited scroll thing. Do they say, well, it must cover this much space? Or is it like, well, this issue's going to be this one, this is going to be that long, this is going to be this long? Almost the exact opposite of that. As usual, I'm an old Marxist. And as usual, like, the form is dictated by the funding.

[00:23:42] So we're paid for six, they're budgeted for six, quote unquote, pages an issue, which means that my scripts have to land at present between 33 and 36 panels. That may actually be getting shorter due to their own budgetary stuff. But the artist is paid for six pages, so we have to be in that zone. And that also affects how long they're allowed to scroll for. There's like a certain length that is the tradition now, the definitive, like, infinity comic page.

[00:24:11] Which I discovered very, like, late in the game. Like, there's an issue where Escapade is falling out of a plane. And I realized we weren't actually allowed to drop her for as long as I wanted, because the page would exceed the page, even though it was just blue sky. I'm just imagining, you know, falling out of a plane. Ah! Oh! Ground was a lot closer than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, right. Exactly.

[00:24:32] So yeah, there is a limit, but it is not. It is sort of semi-artificial in its function, which is news to me. I'm working on it. Yeah, we talk about some of the actual stories you've had going on there. One thing that really surprised me that I end up loving is Blackheart. Mm! Because I read a lot of his comics in the 80s. I'm the oldest one here.

[00:24:53] And I enjoyed that, but I always felt there was something more with him, because, like, Damien Hellstrom has a lot more story, and Satana's got all this intrigue. But then, like, this guy's got some potential, but what is it? And the idea of turning him into, like, an 18 to 20-something heartthrob is actually kind of hilarious, and I love it. But you mentioned, you know, digging up 30-year-old conversations, and he goes to talk with Matt Murdock. And I'm like, that feels like it was just right off Anna Senti's storylines. Yeah. It was just, like, just kind of continuing that.

[00:25:24] Yeah, I actually did a show with Anna Senti the other day, and she—I was very—the most nervous I've ever been on her show, because I was like, oh, God, like, I took one of your things, and I am doing this thing. She's like, oh, you nailed it. And I was like, oh, my God, the highest compliment I've ever heard. She and I vibe very well. We both have sort of the damaged Catholic trauma. I'm that Blackheart now also. Which, of all characters, it's extremely appropriate for him. Yeah, I was very interested when we were designing him.

[00:25:51] I kind of hate this thing where characters who are, like, cosmic entities get defaulted to being, like, white. It bothers me. Okay. Agreed. Macron in the book is—she's a concept, but she's also—like, I was very specific, but she's depicted as Asian. Similarly with Blackheart, I was like, he's going to be activating so much of my Catholic nonsense. I was like, this should probably be a Latino character, actually.

[00:26:17] Like, I wanted him to feel very at home in a church, like we see in that first issue. So I was like, I think this is the neighborhood I want him to be in, in terms of visual. Which is always weird to sort of explain, but, like, I'm sort of sick of white as default. And I think that's an important thing to sort of undo. But yeah, he's an odd character in that he has, as you said, like, he's from the 80s. He's in so many video games. He's in the Ghost Rider movie.

[00:26:45] And yet I think he only has 59 appearances in comics. It's very easy to read all of his appearances. And it felt to me like he was, from Nascente's earliest conception, he was designed to interrogate something that he's never been quite allowed to interrogate. So I kind of wanted to go back to basics with him and think about the question that Nascente asks in that Daredevil 270, I think. Which is like, what would it be like to be the son of Satan? And be like, born and told, you're bad. Go to work. And it's like, I don't know.

[00:27:15] Like, that to me felt sort of queer in my experience. So yeah, thank you. I'm excited for where he goes. He's about to have a very interesting one-shot issue at 41 that was, I think, the hardest script I've ever written. So I'm excited for people to see that. I think something that John and I and a lot of other indie creators have been trying to do is kind of move away from that white, straight, default mold that had been, and male, that had been there for so many, so many years.

[00:27:44] There's, and it's one of those things where I see people say stuff like, well, why is this character necessary? Like, in fact, I just saw somebody shared a TikTok the other day where somebody's like, I don't get why the X-Men are discriminated. Like, they're really cool. Why could they possibly face discrimination? And it's like, yes, because that always makes sense. Right. You know, and so the idea of having, you know, that bigger variety out there is really good. Do you see yourself as going out, going after any kind of like character repair sometimes?

[00:28:12] Like, I'll give a specific example. I hated Avengers Arena and the other ones of its ilk. I've been lately in my TikTok videos lamenting about Marvel Zombies Destroy, which is the bane of my existence. Yeah, yeah. And in Arena, they just kind of casually wipe out some characters in very pointless ways. Like, I have no problem with characters dying. I'm always a big fan of Douglas Adams, big, big, big fan of Douglas Adams. And he was like, if I'm going to kill somebody, you're going to care about them first.

[00:28:40] And if they're just going to die in the background to just show that the bad guy's tough, it's like, what is that? What's the point of that? Yeah. And I always thought with Metal that, I mean, like, he's literally Metal. Why can't he just be reformed or something? And it just was never addressed. And then to see him come back and immediately address the trauma, that was kind of interesting. Well, thank you. Yeah. I think in this industry, you learn pretty fast that every character is someone's favorite character,

[00:29:07] which means you always have to approach every character from a place of love, I think. And it is very possible, and it was very possible in a certain period, to be kind of a vandal about some of this stuff. There was kind of an edgelord period. Yeah. A lot of those. And I think there's still people who were hurt by some of those things. And I'm not innocent of it either. Like, I'm sure there's many people who I'm sure I've offended by making some offhand joke about a character.

[00:29:37] But, like, I do think it's important to come from a place of love and affection and care. Like, there is something custodial about taking care of these characters. I think you always want to leave a character better off than where they began. That doesn't mean everybody's growing and getting better and all these things. In some ways, like, making a villain more interesting, for example, is something that's very interesting to me. Like, as when we were working with Mplate, I was like, well, what? Love that.

[00:30:05] What is behind the way this character operates in the world? And I wanted to sort of think about his loneliness and his queerness as, like, an important and informing part of his being. And with Mplate, I was like, if we're going to do a book called Avengers Academy, the great thing I'd like to do is redress the sort of way for the sake of that story he is sort of disposed of. And also, as soon as I brought him back, like, this is a good example where we're talking about John a minute ago.

[00:30:32] Like, I brought Metal back and I realized, like, I can't just jump into the next story. I have to give this character an issue to just sort of think through what it means to have survived what he has now survived. That was not in the plan. That was not in the schedule. I had to move a lot of stuff to make that happen. But I'm proud of the issue.

[00:30:55] I do think it's sort of a moment, because in a universe where death has been increasingly something characters just kind of do on the weekend, I wanted to think about, like, well, what does it mean to survive and to be traumatized in that way? And I think that's a way for the readers who love that character to also sort of process the lost time. Like, there is a way that, like, these characters are often what people think of as friends. They certainly were to me.

[00:31:22] And I want to see them treated with respect and care, which doesn't mean they can't die. Like, Captain Marvel's death is one of the greatest deaths in comic history. I would not feel comfortable. Again, care about a character before they die. It makes it interesting. Even if it's a minor character. And as a funeral director, like, what you just did, because my weird day job, but... No, no, I'm ever impressed by Avenia lore. Every time there's more that comes out, I'm like, what? You also did that? Yeah. Yeah. So I deal a lot with grief. Like, it's part of it is the grief counseling that comes after the burial and all that.

[00:31:52] And whenever I read something, like anything fiction where someone dies and then right away everyone's moved on, or, like, the instant I'm going to get revenge type thing. I was like, no, you're going to sit for a really long time. Yeah. And you're not going to be able to move. And you're going to process. I was like, that's it. The guy that's going to, I'm going to get up, I'm going to do a lot of work so I don't think about it. I was like, you're not. Your legs aren't going to work. Like, I wrote a book and it's about a mariachi singer whose band gets killed.

[00:32:20] And then, like, it put a 10-year gap between when that happens to when we see him again. Because I was like, for me, that's his processing time. And that was really important. So now that I, like, people are commenting on it, they're like, hey, 10 years is a weird time frame. I was like, for me, for the character, that was realistic enough a time to rebuild your life. Yeah. And try to figure something out. I was like, reading what you did, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:32:47] There was a lot of care put into, like, that kind of thought process of, like, what happens when you die? Like, that death. Thank you. I really appreciated that, too. Yeah. It was important to me that he also is not, like, immediately back in the field, right? Like, he's helping as much as he can, but is also sort of respecting a limit. Like, I think it's important, like, especially when working with marginalized characters.

[00:33:13] A thing that I'm very aware of when I'm dealing with my audiences and also as a reader, like, there is an element of the audience that gets really freaked out when a character is, to their mind, suffering too much.

[00:33:57] Yeah. There's no story element to this. There's no, you know, comeuppance. There's no, what's going on. And my goal is never to traumatize an already traumatized community. But again, thinking of Claremont, like, sometimes what makes a character, not sometimes, always, what makes us root for a character, what makes a character last and meaningful is to see them suffer and persevere and triumph over that suffering.

[00:34:22] Which does mean you have to be willing to see how the engine of the character works. So that is something I consider the scariest part of telling these stories, but also the most important, which is like, yes, representation matters, etc, etc. But also, like, the stories have to matter. These characters have to, like, the Arnie Roth story. Like, that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to write. I don't, I've had the devil in my head. Like, I've written Mephisto.

[00:34:51] Nothing's more fun than writing a demon. Nothing's worse than writing a realistic demon. The Red Skull's daughter, you know? When it's a real-world fascist type person, that's a lot more personally traumatizing than just, I'm the devil. Yes, exactly. So it was important, like, in this moment to be like, well, what does the return of fascism look like? And how can I use these characters to represent some ways to model fighting back, as horrible as it is?

[00:35:18] It was important in that story, for example, that Aaron, to me, it was important Aaron loses his hearing in his right ear, which I also don't have. I wanted the fight to matter. I wanted it to be something he survives and triumphs over, but which costs. That's important, I think. You know, I think that use of trauma is part of what draws, you know, people like me and John in. You know, John, his Lockjaw and Pistolero comic that he was talking about a minute ago is seeped in and around death.

[00:35:47] And then I was recently doing World's War comics, which is about, you know, all this glorification of, like, oh, World War II, The Last Great War. And I'm like, well, these are superheroes who fought in it and are still to this day dealing with trauma. And that was kind of the whole impetus behind that. You mentioned Implate earlier, and you mentioned Anna Nascense giving you a compliment on that one. When I was a teenager, I loved reading comics about teenagers going to school to learn superpowers. And as a teacher, I love reading comics about teenagers going to school to learn superpowers.

[00:36:17] And Generation X was, like, the first book that I got every issue of as it came out. And I always loved Implate. But, like, he was one of those characters that I just knew was going to get kind of regulated, thrown back to just being, oh, he's part of that storyline. And unless Monet or somebody's showing up, he's not going to show up. And I'm like, but there's so much potential here. And I honestly feel like you are the first writer since he's appeared that I think gets him.

[00:36:44] In the sense of, like, even down to the glowy hand things that everybody but Bea forgot, like, those things were there, you know? And, you know, I love that idea of just deep diving into a character, having them feel truly authentic to what they were, but also not limiting them to that same old story. It's kind of like I'm always telling people about X-Men movies. Not every X-Men movie needs Magneto, you know? I love Magneto. He doesn't need to be in every movie, you know? Yeah, Implate. I like my favorite thing.

[00:37:12] The thing I love most about doing these things is the time spent figuring out how the engine of a character works. Like, I'm doing it. Or should I say what? I shouldn't say what character I'm currently doing it with. That one. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe it. But, like, when I know, for example, when I know a villain is coming up, I always go back to as much of the archive as I can. And, like, certainly their first appearances, but also, like, where are the key stories? And figuring out, like, what is this character for?

[00:37:42] How do they work? What's their motivation? But what also, like, if this character is in your story, what does it represent? And to me, Implate and the way Implate can be sort of brought out of the Generation X milieu is, like, Implate is about specifically the moment when you think you're a monster, right? Like, that's what he's for in Generation X. It's like, Generation X more than any X book is about, like, the gross horror of the adolescent body.

[00:38:08] You know, like, everyone in it is like, oh, my God, my skin stretches or rips off or my face is blown off or whatever. And then there's Jubilee. And the Jubilee. And so Implate's in that story because he is sort of, like, the yes and of gothic horror. Yes, you are a monster. Which meant to me that, like, I wanted to think about, like, why does he think he's a monster? And we already had the thing that he had killed his mom. And to me, it's like, this is a weird character.

[00:38:36] His interest in Chamber from that first issue, he's never given, like, I had to put this in a memo because, like, they were like, he's gay. Like, is that true? And I was like, yeah. I read that as well. Like, there's that one issue where we get to see what he would have looked like as a normal-ish person. And just the interactions between him and his sister, that was how I read it. Yeah, exactly. Same. I put that, it's a screencast. Yeah, he's like, like, in the same way that, like, Emma Frost's brother is gay, it's like Monet St. Croix's brother is gay.

[00:39:06] He just kind of has to be. But yeah, he was always sort of queer-coded to me. And we didn't actually, we just sort of turned the knob up a little with the rimbo and stuff. But, like, that's what he was for.

[00:39:20] Like, in this moment where Escapade has finally worked up the nerve to ask Bloodline out, at this moment where Bloodline is still sort of figuring out her own queerness, I had this moment where it was like, this trans character is going to feel like they're being predatory. Who do I bring on stage to sort of interrogate and underline that that is not the case? And the answer is, like, Mplate.

[00:39:44] And it was nice also to be like, this trans character is allowed to be the heroine of a gothic romance story, right? Like, she is also, I mean, the kids are all watching Nosferatu right now and is like, there is sort of this, like, the recognition of the darkness in yourself and that you get to sort of repudiate and overcome was part of that arc. And, like, to me now, I'm like, that's what Mplate's for. And that's how you get him outside of always being the bad guy in a Monet story because he's, like, for all of that.

[00:40:13] Carrie had used him for the bling story, which was very good in the utopian era. And he very briefly showed up in Timeless for, like, five seconds. Yeah, right. Exactly. Which wasn't a bad appearance. It was just an odd one. It's just, like, he's just going to be a villain of the week for five seconds. He's, I mean, we're actually, this is going to, a little spoiler for upcoming Avengers. Avengers Academy. I've always been obsessed with the way the future seems to be overrun with Mplates. Yeah, that's something that was just kind of thrown out there in the 90s.

[00:40:43] They're like, oh, by the way, Mplates are everywhere. It just never really came up. Well, it will again. Believe me. Again, I worked at the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, and it's the minutia of continuity that I was always obsessed with. I'm like, okay, but there was this one issue where this one thing was said. Yeah, same. I'm not one of those guys that's like, oh, you need to go back and get this next issue. I'm more like, they said one line. I want more of what that meant. Yeah. I always wanted to be, like, the trick is always like, everything is true. It all happened.

[00:41:13] What does the reader need on stage to understand this? And as long as the longtime reader is like, this is continuity compliant, I'm happy. Yeah, and I don't feel like any of these are, like, John, I'm going to go on a limb here. So you probably haven't read every Generation X comic ever. No. I'm saying that, yeah. I mean, they're not even in print anymore. It was the one trick you did. So I'm saying, did you feel lost with any of the older characters coming in, like Blackheart or Mplate or any of those things?

[00:41:42] Yeah, when there was a character I didn't know, I would, like, instantly just, like, close it, go to Google, look them up, be like, got it, go back. It's a big thing that exists now. That didn't exist when I was a kid. Well, that's the other thing, and I feel like editorial is still learning this. Like, I know exactly one thing about the reader of Avengers Academy, which is that they have Marvel Unlimited.

[00:42:03] So, like, they can click over to that issue and read it, and that's sort of, like, I've been sort of indulging the sort of continuity thing of, like, you're old enough to figure this out yourself. Go open tandem wikis and stuff. Yeah, I hate when they have to, like, spell out every major event. I was like, I get it. Like, I saw who they are, what they can do kind of a thing. Like, show me what they're doing right now so I can get a better sense of who they are because I don't need to know everything they've done to really understand them.

[00:42:31] I just need to know from here on out. Yeah, exactly. Especially with those two characters they played in Blackheart, there's so much continuity you could point out, but you don't need to. You just need to establish who they are moving forward. And if you want to know more, there it is. Exactly. Yeah, we were talking about playing in a sandbox. John has his own universe that he's kind of created. They're not all interconnected, but some of them are. And then I've had several things that are in the works, but I was like, okay, while I'm waiting, I wanted to do my own sandbox that already existed.

[00:42:59] So I picked a bunch of public domain comics and kind of picked up on those characters. But at the end of the back of the book, I put, here's where you can read about them for free, online, legally. So, like, if you wanted to go read up on those characters, that's still their history, and it works. Is there anything you've suggested to the Marvel Limited people? They've been like, let's do that, or not yet? There's always characters where I'm like, I would love to have this character. And they're like, that character's going to be busy. Like, there was a villain I've always wanted to work on and who I can't quite get my hands on.

[00:43:29] That's kind of the nature of the game, right? Like, someone's busy with a toy, you wait your turn. The weirder experience now is having made toys and watching other people play with them. Like, Kid Juggernaut, like, we created him, and then Emily Kim wrote the miniseries. And now he's appearing in Champions. And so it's like, there is sort of the fun of watching someone else take a kick at a can and, like, being like, oh, like, that's, I didn't. But you're also watching your child go to school for the first time. Yes, exactly.

[00:43:58] And it's very that, you get very nervous, too, is what I'm learning. It's like, oh, like, I hope that I feel so protective. Like, will people like it? And, like, so that's been new for me. And, like, the secondary characters of Avengers Academy have become so interesting to me and, like, feel like my own children. Like, rhinoceros and mysteriant and, like, all these. I've been enjoying how silly those villains are and yet how earnest they are. Yeah, very important to me.

[00:44:27] I mean, a lot of them started as a visual gag and then turned into, like, and this is my child, Cindy Shears. She has a name now. She's got a personality. We know her preferences and everything. We're good. And that's sort of, again, like, again, part of the joy of working in, like, a Claremontian tradition that is mostly not available to people anymore is, like, I'm on issue 42.

[00:44:52] I, these characters have had more appearances now than most characters created in the last 20 years because, like, it's sick or swim out there. Like, if your character doesn't hit in the first issue, you'll never see them again for most Marvel stuff, right? Yeah. And DC's even more cutthroat where, like, the continuity isn't always even there to hold these characters up, right?

[00:45:13] So there has been sort of a nice thing of being, like, I'm, like, the thing Claremont did where it's, like, I'm really interested in the woman who's teaching Shadowcat to dance. And it's, like, I guess. Stevie always needs to come back. Yeah. Is there ever a thing where they're, like, like you mentioned earlier that you know you have a certain order to fulfill? I know that other creators are, like, well, I was hoping to get, you know, 12 comics. They gave me seven. Is that less of a concern when it's digital only and you know it's going to subscribers? It's not less of a concern.

[00:45:43] It is a concern always than they could just. There's no contractual requirement that they fulfill the order. But it was sort of a series that began as a year-long pitch and is, I'm happy to say, doing very well. Like, there is sort of, like, data of, like, how many people are clicking on it. Are they reading it right away? That sort of thing. And, like, as of right now, anyway, it's looking good. So people are reading. The response has been, like, whenever I get to see the letters, it's such a joy to see.

[00:46:13] So I am pretty feeling pretty good. We'll get to at least our 66 that was the initial, and it's possible we may get to open up past that. Hopefully. It will be hard for me to say goodbye when it's time to say goodbye. But we're, what, at two-thirds through now? At 42? It's a good number. Yeah. I'm having the time of my life. I'm really grateful for this opportunity. As I said, it's functionally unprecedented now.

[00:46:42] I'm glad people are reading it, and thank you for being so kind to it. No, it's one of the, because I have a harder and harder time, like, getting back into mainline superhero stuff. Because, like you said, sometimes the continuity either gets in the way of the story or it doesn't exist, and they're trying to tell me something that I'm a little lost on. Yeah. Like, I had read this when I signed up for, like, Marvel Unlimited originally, and then when Kevin brought it back up, that's when I was like, oh, I'm gonna, like, catch up to where I was.

[00:47:10] Because a lot of times with the, like, apps and stories and stuff, I kind of get lost, or I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna read Maximum Carnage again, because, like, the movie's coming out, or whatever. And I get lost in, like, a cycle of that. But rereading all these, I was, like, burning through them. Like, so much. I was, like, the fastball special, like, bit, where they're doing that. Like, my heart was just, like, I love this. And then that goes back to, like, the Claremont thing of just, like, this is fun. I didn't know how long it was gonna be, but I'm glad to hear, like, you got a longer order.

[00:47:40] Because a lot of times I'll like a writer, and they'll be on a book. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna jump on this book because this writer's on it. And then it's like, oh, it's one of six. And then after six, we don't know what's gonna happen. And I miss long-form, I made a video the other day just kind of ranting about this. I was like, I miss long-form comics, where it's, like, one creative team for ten years. Yeah. Or five years. And it's just that kind of storytelling. Because you really get to feel a story.

[00:48:05] Not everything has to be a cinematic 60-minute movie type thing. It can be longer and take longer to tell a story. And it earns you those stories, right? Like, Dark Phoenix, the reason Dark Phoenix has been impossible to adapt to film is, like, you gotta earn Dark Phoenix. It's a slow burn. Like, a very well-done slow burn. I have to know Gene like a friend before you can do the Dark Phoenix saga, right? I don't know if I was supposed to be writing it all this time.

[00:48:34] Like, I think it was very much a, like, until you can't. I just have refused to die. Because it is weekly. Like, weekly is crazy. But, um, I, it does feel like it's just, like, such an opportunity of a lifetime that I can't, I can't take my foot off the gas, you know? And it was really cool of Marvel to do, like, the voices thing. Because that, a lot of times, like, I've seen it go bad. Like, uh, when the DC was doing, like, the cover things, it was just, like, reduction to food.

[00:49:02] We had a whole episode about that. It was, it was intense. Yeah. I was, yeah. But, like, I had big feelings on that. But then, seeing the way Marvel did it, and the way they were doing it right, and I have a friend in Chicago, Jim Terry, who got to be a part of, like, the native, like, book that Marvel was doing. And I, like, seeing him light up and be a part of it. Like, that was awesome. And that's cool that at least you can see that they care enough to do it. And that's really awesome. Yeah. I'm really grateful to Sarah Brunstadt, who started the book and is now over at Flash

[00:49:32] Gordon. They're editing the book, and they're just such cheerleaders for this book and, like, fighting for it so hard, which I appreciate so much. Like, we really are pushing the envelope in ways that are sometimes, like, right at the edge of what you can get away with. And I think that that's such important work to do. I'm not interested in, I'm not interested in just, like, again, like, sort of representation matters, and we all get along.

[00:49:59] It's like, if these stories are going to matter, they have to be down to the bone. They have to really speak to the struggles and joys of these characters. And that does mean, like, problematic, right? But it's like, M-Plate is not going to be on the cover of the Pride special, you know? I would hope not. That's why I'm always like, why would DC would choose certain characters for their covers? I'm like, is that really your best foot forward? Yeah. But I think that's important. Like, that's not lived experience.

[00:50:28] And, like, you have to think about the ugly and the gray, and M-Plate is both those things. Yeah. I like that you say you have to get into the painful parts of it sometimes. Because, like, for myself, I think a lot about mixed heritage. Because I've always had kind of between two worlds kind of a situation. And it's like, with characters like Miguel O'Hara, I just come up. And with characters like Miles Morales, it's like, every time his mixed heritage comes up, it's celebrated. Like, yes, we love you from both sides.

[00:50:57] For me, the only time I ever felt represented in that respect was Namor. Because, like, sure, one of his heritage was fictional. But, like, he was not trusted by either side. And I'm like, yeah, that feels better, you know? That I can get behind. And that's why he was always, like, a favorite character of mine for that reason. And just seeing that, I don't want to call it a darker side of representation, but the, let's say, messier side sometimes. Yeah. I do think there is... No one hurts you like your own. Yes.

[00:51:27] I similarly think, like, it's great and it's useful to have these sort of metaphors, right? Like, we're used to, like, the X-Men metaphor and stuff like that. But I'm also not interested in about us without us, right? Like, it's not just about the metaphor. Like, with these characters, Escapade is not just trans in the sense of, like, the mutant metaphor, but he's a trans character, right?

[00:51:51] Like, I think it's important that we be authentic about the way these characters stand for things without sort of the scrim of a tidy metaphor, right? But, yeah, it is true. Like, it's harder to sell, like, you know, Nemours as representation because it sucks from every side of it. But, like, that is an experience that we have, right?

[00:52:16] Similarly, like, M-Plate represents to me, like, a way that as a damaged Catholic queer myself, like, sometimes that's how you think about yourself. Am I just a monster? Or why he's quoting Paradise Lost throughout. It's like, well, to what extent have I just become this kind of mutilated version of what I could have been? There's something very satanic about him in that sense. Yeah. Mess. You mentioned watching characters you create now be, you know, handled by other creators.

[00:52:45] And then you bring up Escapade a lot. Escapade is a very recent character. Mm-hmm. I think Charlie Jane Anders created her. Do you go to some of the creators and be like, hey, I want to do this, what do you think? Or is it just kind of like, hey, it's a sandbox now? I, yes. So, in, especially if a creator is, like, so specifically tied to a character. First of all, if there's someone I know, like, which is true of most of me. Well, obviously. Like, I don't know who I would ask for permission about Normie Osborne. Yeah, no. I mean, that's a whole other.

[00:53:15] That's something I'm saying. Like, Normie is very much a, like, if I want to do something to Normie, the spider office lets me know if I can do it. But, like, with Escapade, with Bloodline, with Danny Lore, with Josh Trujillo and Aaron Fisher. Very often I'll be like, what are you? What, what is this okay? I'm thinking of going in this direction. There's also things, like, that I just don't think are my place or, like, patterns established with the characters.

[00:53:42] For example, Charlie Jane for Escapade has never depicted Escapade's parents, which means that I don't feel right doing it either. Like, there's a moment in an upcoming issue where we see Escapade is thinking about her childhood. But it was very important to me that I was like, I don't want the parent to appear in this except as a hand. Because not going there is part of what the character is about, right? And, like, I would want more runway to go there, this sort of thing.

[00:54:09] Yeah, but I also recognize, like, it's not, if someone does something to Kid Juggernaut someday, then I'm like, the one way I don't want to be Claremont is I don't want to be finger wagging from the back. You know, where it's like, I would never, she wouldn't do that, you know, that sort of thing. You do have to sort of recognize that these characters are going to have a life beyond yourself and may go in directions that aren't what you intended. And hopefully they won't be blown up by somebody.

[00:54:39] But if they are Jews, that's not, I don't own them, you know. They belong to the ages now. You know, one thing that's been running in the back of my head this whole conversation was when I was a teenager, my favorite character at Marvel was Skin. Because he was the first Mexican-American X-Men who was born in the U.S. Because up to that point, it was always like, you had to explain where they're from. They're like, oh, it was Storm, but she was raised in Africa. It's like, if they're not white, they had to explain where they were from, except for Jubilee and Skin.

[00:55:05] Those are the only ones that were like, I'm not white, but I'm also, you know, born here. And so I associated with him a lot. And then as soon as the series ended, they were like, we need to kill off some people. He's just going to die between panels. And it's like, what happened? You know, and so every time you're talking about this, it's like, I'm kind of remembering that. And I'm being like, yeah, yeah, I was that reader. Yeah, again, a very specific vintage of the comics. Right. That time period, yeah. Crucified on the lawn. Literally. Yeah.

[00:55:35] That was the last video I made. Somebody was just, I made a video just talking about my books. And somebody was like, I'll just do Marvel or DC because they're always slam dunking it. And then I just grabbed like the edgiest time period stuff. And I was like, remember this? Remember that? There was a lot more love for Superman Red and stuff than I remember growing up reading it. And I was like, all right. Like, that was a weird one, but I'll take that beating. But you'll never get me on like this X-Force team. Yeah.

[00:56:04] There's so many things from comic book history that we're like, yeah, we love it. We don't talk about that part. We don't talk about it. Yeah. And that's like a daily thing on TikTok for me. I think every generation does sort of pick which parts they don't talk about, right? Like, we were seeing a real nostalgia moment happen. And like, for a long time, we didn't talk about the 90s. And now it's like, that's the stuff I kind of grew up on. So I'm interested. Like, my favorite character is Strife. No one likes Strife, but I love him. There's so much potential there. I can see that. I can see that.

[00:56:36] Yeah. So I think that like, one of the great joys of something like Marvel is like, the tapestry is so old that like, you'll always find moments will come and go in their relevance, right? Like, and the way a generation can think about something is like, like the metal is a good example, right? Like, I want to think about trauma. So I'm going to think about his trauma. And he gets brought back on stage, even though he could have maybe never come back, right? Sorry. Yeah.

[00:57:04] There is a way that you, the story, which is sometimes daunting to in a new reader, but like, is to me, the great pleasure of it is like, the story is older than I am. The story will outlast me. And everybody jumps in, in media rows. Everybody is, everybody's, every comic is someone's first comic. And they can now more than ever pick and choose how much of the lore they want to get into. That matters a lot to me.

[00:57:30] And that, on that note, I kind of want to wrap this up a little bit, ask you a little bit about upcoming stuff. Is there anything that you're doing either in person or writing or creating or just participating in that you want to talk about? Sure. Well, if you're interested in Catholic trauma, you can pick up my book, Dayspring, which is a retelling of the story of Christ from the point of view of his boyfriend, the beloved disciple. That is out everywhere fine books are sold.

[00:57:58] There are some interesting Marvel projects that have not been announced yet, but keep your eyes out for that. And if you're in Toronto, you should come to my screenings. I do a film screening series at the Review Cinema called Dumpster Raccoon Cinema. Our next two are, we're doing a screening of Megan, and then we're going to do a sing-along screening of Wicked. So we love to forage through pop culture trash and play with its campier elements. So come to that. But yeah, lots of stuff on the horizon. Thank you for having me. This has been so fun.

[00:58:27] Where can people find you online, by the way? Well, it feels like every day a different social media platform collapses. That's a thing. But I am on most of them at Mia Kupa, M-E-A-K-O-O-P-A. It's a bad Mario Latin pun. You can follow me on those. Although I find Twitter just doesn't work anymore. I never liked it to begin with, and now I don't feel obligated to use it. Yeah. But I'm on Blue Sky. I'm on Instagram. I'm not on TikTok.

[00:58:57] I mean, I am, but I mostly just use it to look at cooking memes. And follow my videos, of course. Yeah. Right. Right. Yes, exactly. I just ordered your book, too. Yeah. It's a lot of gay porn, but have fun. Good advertising. John, what do you got going on right now? What are you working on? Since we haven't really talked about your stuff since December. What's going on right now? You probably got like two new books, it sounds like. It's going to have like 50 more books. We got more issues. I do a D&D comic called Familiar Dungeons about a group of siblings that get stuck in

[00:59:27] like an RPG and they have to like role play their way out. I have seven siblings, so all of that is in there. But yeah, so we got a new issue of that. We did like a new spinoff. And then we have a new book called Better Things to Come that's coming out at the end of the month. And it's about a husband and wife who are the relationships falling apart. So they end up investing in this like robot that's supposed to come and make your life easier. It's like Melrose Place meets the Jetsons because there's a murder mystery set in the apartment complex.

[00:59:55] And it's like a very positive futuristic story because I feel like everything is like bleak future. Like at some point we just give up on resisting. And I was like, this is kind of going to be the opposite of that. But with like sexualized robot thing that just it's fun. It's a lot of fun. And like I was reading pages of it to my wife and she was just like, Jesus Christ, Johnny. That's when you know it's good. Yeah. I also grew up like extremely Catholic, like Mexican Catholic grandma.

[01:00:24] I wanted to be a priest when I was younger. Yep. And then like I turned 17 and I was like, that's out the window. Like that's I met my wife when I turned 18 and we've been together like ever since. But yeah, but all that goes into that book. And John, rest a reminder, where can people find you online? All socials at Vena Comics, except for I'm still on Twitter, but it's less and less use. But I mean, it's I'm fighting bots every day. Yeah. Yeah. Truly pointless.

[01:00:52] Like it's not even if it's like even if you hit you agree with the politics of these maniacs, unusable. Because like a big point for me is like my my characters are Latin because I'm Mexican. So I like I want to write my stories. Just having that be the point of my books makes me a target for so much. Every few seconds. Yeah. But I love arguing with people. I'm just like I deal with dead people all day. Nothing you can say can hurt me.

[01:01:17] You know, since we're all talking about our religious guilt, I was baptized Catholic, confirmed Presbyterian, and my mother was a Mormon preacher. And I am religiously neutral. You're getting the bingo card. Yeah. So, yeah, a little bit of everything. But yeah, I don't have any immediate books right now, mainly because I don't have the publishing skills that John does. Because like I said, if I wasn't if I didn't have to publish my own stuff, I could write a whole heck of a lot more.

[01:01:44] I do have books that are from other publishers, but they've been in limbo for several months. Although I'm told soon this season or rather spring. So we'll we'll see. I am, however, going to be at a couple of small events. I'm going to be at the Teen and Kids Comic Con at Ridden Round Rock, Texas. It's sponsored by the city library, I believe. And I'll be at BIPOC Pop, which I think, John, you're not going to come this year, but hopefully next time. Right.

[01:02:12] That's a kind of a combination comic con and academic symposium at UT, which has been going on for the past four years. And I really hope it continues. But given the world run right now, we'll see what happens next year. And the dark day. Yeah, on that happy note. No. And then, of course, I'm found on most places at Kevin Garcia underscore com, including TikTok, where I've been kind of off and on still posting despite its limbo status.

[01:02:40] And the only place where I'm not Kevin Garcia underscore com is Blue Sky because they will not let me use an underscore. So there I'm just at Kevin Garcia. But of course, the one place where you can find all of us is at My Primo's Podcast and also MyPrimo'sPodcast.com, which I am so happy we have. Because although we are on all the major streaming platforms, there is one place where you can catch it all at once. So that's a lot of fun for me personally. Anthony, it has been a blast having you on here.

[01:03:09] Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. Stop recording. You're going to go and give us all the spoilers. Sure. But yes, everybody check out. Check out Adventures Academy. Check out both John's books, Anthony's books, and hope my books eventually get published. And we'll see you next time at My Primo's Podcast. Remember, wherever you are, you're a Primo. Bye. Bye.